Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:45: Format for the podcast
00:03:03: Ebook decisions
00:12:15: TED Discuss picks
00:22:41: Helpful podcasts
00:32:00: Blogs and newsletters
00:37:36: Folks to comply with
00:42:30: Last ideas
Interview Transcription
Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Every week, we discuss a unique subject to do with work, and share some concepts and actions that we hope over the past 12 months and over the past 470-plus-ish episodes —
Helen Tupper: One thing like that.
Sarah Ellis: — have helped you to navigate the Squiggly Careers that all of us have with that bit extra confidence and management. And you’ll most likely inform already from the tone, the relaxed tone, that it’s our final podcast of 2024. If you’re listening to this on the day that it goes out, it is New 12 months’s Eve, and your dedication to profession improvement is spectacular.
Helen Tupper: Spectacular, effectively finished you!
Sarah Ellis: Nicely finished you! Otherwise you’re escaping your loved ones and you are like, “Yeah, I simply want to actually hearken to this for work”!
Helen Tupper: Additionally, effectively finished you!
Sarah Ellis: Sure! So we thought, what’s going to really feel helpful on the finish of the 12 months, or maybe simply over the vacation festive season, a shorter sensible hear? And so, we thought we might do our high 10 books, podcasts and other people from 2024. Principally, what have we been studying from, who’ve we been studying from, what have we discovered helpful? It is type of our curiosity-curated episode. First time we have finished one like this. We regularly do a type of end-of-year podcast, which you might need already listened to, the place we mirror on our years and do some questions and a few statements to assist us assume via our 12 months. However that is way more about issues that I suppose have helped us. And we hope that this may provide you with a little bit of an inventory which you can additionally study from. Or perhaps you set collectively your individual checklist and you may share that with one another in a staff.
Helen Tupper: I really discovered it a very helpful private course of —
Sarah Ellis: Identical.
Helen Tupper: — to do that, as a result of it jogged my memory of what I would been studying after which it made me assume, “Gosh, that took numerous effort. I ought to have stored a studying log, so I may have referred again to it. That might have made life loads simpler in attending to all of the insights of at this time’s dialog”. And likewise, it made me assume, I would wish to create a manner of referring to those issues extra simply subsequent 12 months —
Sarah Ellis: Identical, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — placing all my hyperlinks in a single place. I even thought, “I ponder if there’s some AI factor that may routinely feed it into a kind of apps, like Pocket, so I’ve curated all this stuff that I will discuss now, and it routinely goes to a spot”. So, I used to be going via it and pondering, “I am certain there may be a better manner of doing this than me going via my notes and my bookshelf, and all that type of stuff”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is what I did. I stared at my bookshelf for some time, and I used to be like, “Is that this actually one of the simplest ways to do that?”
Helen Tupper: Precisely the identical!
Sarah Ellis: And I used to be additionally pondering, I used to be attempting to additionally ensure that it was issues that had been within the final 12 months.
Helen Tupper: Me too.
Sarah Ellis: As a result of really, one of many books I checked out, I used to be like, “Oh no, that is really extra from the 12 months earlier than”. And so, yeah, I feel there most likely has bought to be a greater course of. However equally, such as you say, it was fairly a helpful course of. So, the format for the podcast, we have every chosen a e book, a TED Discuss, an individual to comply with, a podcast and a weblog. As we undergo, we’ll discuss our respective decisions. We have not shared them beforehand so let’s hope we have not bought the identical issues, as a result of that might be a bit boring. You begin us off then, begin us off with a kind of Submit-it notes you simply confirmed me offscreen.
Helen Tupper: Okay, my first Submit-it word is my e book of the 12 months.
Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: It is likely to be my e book of the 12 months as a result of I realised, I did not learn many books this 12 months. I felt actually dangerous about it. I used to be like, “Oh no!” However this one really actually caught out, partly as a result of it was a e book I learn on vacation. So, I feel you are in a barely totally different mindset on vacation. A variety of the time, I am studying in a really environment friendly manner as a result of we’re interviewing somebody for our podcast. However I picked a e book I took on vacation, and it is known as Identical As Ever. It is a e book by Morgan Housel, who additionally wrote The Psychology of Cash. And subtitle is, “Timeless Classes on Danger, Alternative and Dwelling a Good Life”. And it is principally a e book that claims, you understand we at all times discuss all the pieces’s altering, the world’s altering at a sooner tempo, we now have a number of that type of narrative?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: He is going, effectively, that’s true, and there’s a lot of change. But in addition, there’s a lot that’s at all times the identical, that whatever the change, can be constant. And that among the issues, for instance, are the predictability of human behaviour over occasions. So, whilst you cannot predict what’s going to occur, you possibly can predict how individuals will reply, as a result of issues like concern and greed are common and proceed. Additionally, he talks about, I believed this was fairly fascinating, if not a little bit bit miserable, happiness and expectation. So, he principally says that, “Happiness is extra influenced by expectation than circumstances”. So, it isn’t how a lot stuff occurs in your life that makes you cheerful or not, it is how a lot you count on that factor to make you cheerful. So, if I am going via, for instance our subsequent e book. If I am going via pondering, “That is going to make me so blissful when that’s revealed”, then there’s virtually a possible expectation-versus-reality hole. Whereas should you go, “I am simply publishing one other e book” after which any happiness I get from that may be a bonus, somewhat than anticipating happiness as an final result. So, simply principally be a bit extra balanced somewhat than anticipating outcomes to make you cheerful.
Then you definately’ll like this one, one other type of same-as-ever precept from the e book, “Storytelling at all times trumps statistics”. The ability of a narrative wins out each time. And so, I simply discover it fairly a balanced e book, and just a few issues that really — and he provides a great deal of examples that, from a very long time in the past, that this stuff are at all times constant, even when we live in a time of change.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, it is helpful, is not it? I can think about asking your self that query like, “What stays constant, what stays the identical for your self, to your organisation, your business?” It is fairly an excellent reflection, as a result of I take into consideration, for instance the conversations that we now have with organisations, and we now have been having now for nonetheless lengthy we have been working Superb If full-time, three, 4 years, there are some issues which have stayed the identical. So, we’ll at all times be like, there are new insights, we’re working new methods. And I feel particularly as everyone talks loads about AI, it is simple to neglect a few of these common truths. So, I feel that is an excellent reflection. I’ve not learn that. What was the e book known as once more?
Helen Tupper: Identical as Ever.
Sarah Ellis: Identical as Ever, good.
Helen Tupper: So, what was your e book, e book of the 12 months, e book of 2024?
Sarah Ellis: So, once you say e book, singular, clearly I cheated!
Helen Tupper: The reader begins!
Sarah Ellis: Sure! I discovered it actually troublesome to decide on one e book, so I did cheat. And what I’ve chosen, and I reckon it is okay, I justified this to myself, I’ve chosen a group of books that each one come out of Stanford.
Helen Tupper: “I’ve chosen the library”!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah! Nicely, they’re all equivalent in format. So, Stanford Design College write Stanford Design College guides. And so they all look the identical, they’re all the identical measurement. They’re fairly small books, they’re very visible. They’re written by totally different individuals, so I’m dishonest a little bit bit. However I’ve bought three of them right here in entrance of me. One in all them known as Experiments in Reflection; one other, The Secret Language of Maps; and the third, Make Potentialities Occur. And I feel they’re simply books. I found them this 12 months. So, you understand typically you assume, “How have I not found these books earlier than?” And so they come out of the identical college, the identical establishment, as Sarah Steinberg’s e book, Curious Acts for Artistic Folks. So, we now have had Sarah on the podcast earlier than, however I simply hadn’t found these smaller books. And her e book is far larger and extra, she brings collectively a number of totally different individuals.
So, from every of these books, I simply picked out one factor that stood out to me that is bought a Submit-it word, they’ve all nonetheless bought Submit-it notes in them. So, Experiments in Reflection, they’ve a very good part on questions, they usually discuss how, “Good questions are ones that make you extra curious. They nudge you right into a state of not understanding, so that you just take into account new prospects”. You possibly can ask good questions that do that for different individuals, and importantly, you are able to do this for your self too. And so, what I actually like about their books is they’re pithy, they’re to the purpose, they ask you a number of questions, however they provide you diagrams and visuals and totally different instruments to check out. So, I feel for plenty of our listeners, should you just like the Squiggly Profession e book, should you like You Coach You, I am assured format-wise you’ll take pleasure in these books. So, that was one perception on reflection.
Helen Tupper: I am having a little bit scan on Amazon now at these books. I did not learn about this collection. They give the impression of being sensible, there’s a great deal of them.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, they’re sensible.
Helen Tupper: They give the impression of being actually good.
Sarah Ellis: That is the one the place in the summertime, I feel you might need been at Disney! So, I found these in the summertime, which really was an excellent second of, as a result of we had been writing our e book, I feel once you write a e book, you learn much more books consequently. So, I’ve learn hundreds extra books this 12 months, nonfiction books specifically. I at all times learn a number of fiction as a result of I used to be doing a number of analysis for us. And a few of these books hit the mark and a few of them have a paragraph that is helpful, however a few of them you go, “Oh, these are everlasting place-on-the-bookshelf books”, and that is what these have grow to be.
The Secret Language of Maps, I actually like. They discuss how, “Regardless of the kind of information, it at all times wants a human to make which means out of it”. And since it’s a e book about information, they only confirmed a great deal of various kinds of information. Once more, it is very visible, I discovered it actually fascinating, they usually discuss how you may use information at work in a number of other ways.
Helen Tupper: I imply, I am ordering that proper now whereas I am speaking to you for my husband for Christmas, as a result of I’ve bought time to get it, as a result of he loves a map. So, that is sensible, current sorted. I am very grateful for this.
Sarah Ellis: Sure, in order that they’re actually good. And one of many diagrams I am now, they discuss exploring earlier than you clarify. He reveals there’s someone getting concepts, then determining in case your concept is any good, strive one thing even when it appears nuts. So, they divide them down into one, two, three, 4, make sense of a giant pile of data. I simply assume they’re actually, actually good. It additionally reveals typically, you do not want lengthy books. I am a fan of quick books which are simply helpful. After which, the third one, which is about making prospects occur, has an entire part on curiosity, which clearly I actually appreciated. And so they discuss curiosity being important for studying as a result of, “It at all times leads you to one thing you did not beforehand know”. So, after we discuss virtually serendipity and questioning and at all times rising, at all times studying, I feel we have talked loads concerning the significance of curiosity earlier than. And once more, it provides a number of examples.
Every of the books, the books are written by totally different individuals, so they don’t seem to be formulaic, they do not all comply with the identical method. So, this one, the Make Potentialities Occur, for instance, could be very neon, nevertheless it’s bought extra huge statements and sentences. It talks a bit about what to do in type of moments of rejection. Yeah, so the design of every of them is a pleasure. So, if you’re somebody who’s inquisitive about design, they usually’re not the identical, however they’re simple to spend time with, they’re simple to select up and put down once more. However I usually did discover, I’ve really learn them greater than as soon as, however you possibly can learn them in a single sitting. As a result of should you had an hour, I feel you may make fairly good progress via them. And they’re undoubtedly books to have. Get the highlighters out, get the underliners, put the Submit-it notes. I actually take pleasure in spending time with them.
They’ve grow to be a bit like — there are three collection of books the place I just about at all times purchase them. So, I purchase a number of the HBR books. So, there will be like an HBR e book on judgment or on self-awareness, the place they acquire collectively articles, and put them in a single place. And we have been in a number of of these books, in issues like important pondering. So, clearly I’ve really purchased our ones, however I additionally do purchase a number of the opposite ones. I usually purchase the DO books. So, they’re from David Hieatt, who’s been on the podcast. So, you have bought issues like DO Tales, DO Scale, DO Agile. One which’s simply come out really on DO Groups, which I’ve not learn but. And the Stanford Design College guides, they’re my three. They’re trusted sources of high quality. I just like the fashion and I’ve bought all of them on my bookshelf. And so, yeah, with my one e book advice, I’ve now given you three e book collection and you’ve got most likely bought about 50 books now you can select from.
Helen Tupper: It’s kind of of an aspiration. I’d love us to have like a collection, a Squiggly Expertise collection, the place they’re quick books on the talents for careers. That is one for subsequent 12 months. We’ll add it to the checklist of issues that we’re presupposed to be writing about. Okay, class: TED Discuss. That is the place I’ve cheated a little bit bit, as a result of I’ve bought two, however I’ve bought two for a motive, as a result of the primary one is admittedly good, nevertheless it’s a little bit bit heavy. So, I’ve bought one which I discovered actually, I do not know, fairly significant, after which one which was only a bit lighter. I feel they complement one another very properly.
Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: Neither of them are actually to do with work, however I feel that is the great factor about TED Talks, is you do not at all times have to look at the TED Discuss that is actually apparent about, like, work-based stuff as a way to get some helpful insights. So, my first advice known as To Love Is To Be Courageous, and it’s by Kelly Corrigan, who’s an writer and a podcaster. And the rationale that I like to recommend that is I feel it’s a masterclass in empathy, which I do not assume is one in every of my super-skills. And so, simply watching someone speak via empathy in relationships, every kind of relationships, like mates, household, companions, and he or she talks about seven phrases that it’s best to say if you end up listening to someone share one thing that’s arduous for them. It might be something, it might be a work-based factor, it might be an out-of-work-based factor. However seven phrases that it’s best to say, that are type of just like the masterclass in empathy.
She says these are courageous phrases that it’s best to say to create connections and assist individuals. And the phrases are, “Inform me extra, what else? Go on”. And it’s simply this skill to stick with someone who’s sharing one thing that’s vital to them and he or she says what courageous individuals do in these conversations, the place persons are sharing, is they do not take over and grow to be the hero. And you know the way you speak concerning the distinction between a assist and a shift response, the concept a assist response is staying with them, a shift response is transferring it to you?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: I believed it resonated with me, they do not take over and grow to be the hero. However I identical to the, “Inform me extra, what else? Go on”, and simply having the ability to sit with a dialog. So, it is a actually transferring one, and I feel she’s sensible. She additionally provides in little moments of humour into what is kind of a transferring watch. She’s simply very, excellent. And so after it, I believed, “Oh, you want a little bit little bit of lightness”, and so my lightness, a little bit little bit of lightness, is The way to Discover Laughter Anyplace. It is fairly a brief watch, about eight minutes, by Chris Duffy, additionally a 2024 new TED Discuss. And he simply talks concerning the humour that youngsters can create as a result of they don’t seem to be self-judging what they’re saying. And he has some humorous tales about issues that youngsters say and issues that youngsters do, and he talks a little bit bit about improvisation and this concept that a number of the time, we’re self-judging and we’re modifying what we’re saying, as a result of we fear about what individuals take into consideration us, all that type of stuff. And kids haven’t got that filter. And he type of talks simply typically about how, should you undergo life with a bit much less of a filter and caring a little bit bit much less what you are presupposed to say and do and what different individuals consider you, then really, it is simpler to seek out pleasure. And it is a quick watch and it is fairly humorous and it is most likely not going to vary your life, however it’s a fairly good little pairing with a barely extra transferring and emotional one.
Sarah Ellis: I am unable to bear in mind the precise analysis, however I am certain I’ve learn one thing the place persons are usually at their happiest as soon as they attain, I am unable to bear in mind whether or not it is like their 50s or their 60s, however principally it is as a result of they care much less and have much less of a filter. Virtually like, with expertise comes letting go of being too important of your self, such as you’re so important of your self, significantly in your 20s, I feel, or actually I used to be, and also you simply begin to be a bit extra assured in who you’re, such as you say, most likely simply take pleasure in all the pieces a bit extra, not get fairly as anxious about all the pieces. And I am certain that may be a factor of age, and such as you mentioned, that is the identical type of factor, is not it, simply being ready to only let go and snigger at your self and snigger with different individuals, very nice.
Helen Tupper: Sure. Nicely, he says, “Enable your self to be laughed at and know when to snigger at your self”, so it is precisely what you are saying, yeah.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, effectively you do, you undoubtedly have to try this. You understand when individuals say, “You possibly can take your work severely, however by no means take your self too severely”? My favorite individuals by no means take themselves too severely, and I at all times hope that I would not both. However I am lethal severe about work, I actually care about what we do.
Helen Tupper: Sarah’s like, “I am lethal severe about work”!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, effectively I feel you’d solely must learn our WhatsApp conversations to understand we actually care! However equally, typically I feel we’re at all times good at nonetheless discovering enjoyable and laughing with one another, really in among the hardest moments, however in different moments as effectively. And I feel should you and I ended laughing, I feel that is after I get most anxious, as a result of we now have at all times been in a position to snigger at one another and with one another. I really assume that is helped us in so many conditions.
Helen Tupper: So, what was your TED speak?
Sarah Ellis: So, mine wasn’t recorded final 12 months, however I did watch it for the primary time final 12 months. So, I used to be studying a bit about, we did that podcast episode, When is Good Sufficient Nice? And we had been arising with this concept as a part of the e book, the place we had been speaking about minimal viable progress, the place it was like learn how to transfer issues ahead once you’re feeling a bit caught, or once you’re procrastinating, once you’re discovering issues arduous. And I had really by no means watched Tim City’s Contained in the Thoughts of a Grasp Procrastinator TED Discuss.
Helen Tupper: It is probably the most fashionable ones, is not it?
Sarah Ellis: It’s. I feel it is two or three. It is one thing like 75 million views, however I wasn’t one in every of them.
Helen Tupper: What are we at? We’re at like 2 million, a little bit of a solution to go.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, however are you aware what, I am going to take it.
Helen Tupper: I am going to take it.
Sarah Ellis: Speaking about making you snigger, he has bought that viewers within the palm of his hand, making them snigger. He is a very pure presenter. He is really good, you understand, good to look at, somebody who seems to be very snug on stage. Now, what was fascinating about it’s the factor that has actually caught with me, and he undoubtedly self-identifies as somebody who actually procrastinates, he at all times leaves all the pieces to the final minute, and many others; however the perception that stayed with me was after we procrastinate, there’s principally two forms of procrastination. There’s procrastination once you’ve bought a deadline, which really individuals who do procrastinate discover their manner after they’ve bought a deadline, as a result of he talks about this factor known as the panic monster. So, you may have the moment gratification monkey, who stops you making progress, and your rational self that tells you, “Do issues in levels”.
However then when you’ve got a deadline, like for us for instance, this 12 months, we did have a deadline to submit the primary draft of our e book, or each week, you and I’ve a deadline to do a podcast each week, so each week we now have that, there’s a second the place if you’re procrastinating for too lengthy, the panic monster kicks in and also you principally do make progress. However then, there are issues that you just procrastinate on the place there simply isn’t any deadline. And he mentioned, that is really the place individuals begin to actually give themselves a tough time about their procrastination. So, that might be one thing like simply wish to train extra or get fitter, however there is no deadline. Should you’re working a marathon, there is a deadline, however usually there’s not. And he was saying what was fascinating is when he first began writing about procrastination, he does it in a really light-hearted manner, however he bought a number of severe responses, individuals going, “That is actually impacting my life. This actually does get in my manner”. And he mentioned, we have to typically virtually create a deadline that’s going to kickstart ourselves into motion on these issues that do not naturally have, like, actually apparent deadlines.
He confirmed one thing that I feel is admittedly highly effective, on the finish of the TED Discuss. And I’m going to spoil it, I’m going to indicate what it’s. However primarily, he reveals your life as a calendar with a great deal of little squares on a display screen. And he goes, “Is not that the final word deadline? That is not that many containers”. And I am unable to bear in mind whether or not the containers are every week or a 12 months, nevertheless it’s type of going, “Nicely, look, that is your complete life as a calendar, roughly, relying on how lengthy you reside for. Is that fairly an excellent motivator to cease you procrastinating on that factor, as a result of that is it, that is how lengthy we have got”. And so, whether or not it’s you have at all times had that dream of doing that factor that you just simply have not began or really feel such as you’ve by no means been in a position to prioritise, it is a very type of zoomed out perspective, nevertheless it’s fairly stunning.
I feel one of many issues that I used to be happy with final 12 months, effectively, this was nonetheless nearly on this 12 months, was doing extra memorable experiences with my mates and my household, which I would type of stopped doing for some time, partly due to life, partly working a enterprise, having small children, all that type of stuff. And I used to be a bit like, “However why am I not doing these issues? I’ve bought entry to them, I may make them occur, I am desirous about making them occur and by no means really doing it”. It served as a helpful reminder for me of going, simply watch out you are not placing your vitality and efforts into all the pieces that is too quick time period or simply within the now, when you do not wish to try this train or once you’re pondering or have not bought time for it. Virtually seeing a dwell calendar is an excellent reminder of why it’s best to exit for the stroll, why it’s best to see your folks, these issues that do not routinely have deadlines and which are simple principally to place off for an additional day.
I do know Tim’s work, so I’ve bought Wait However Why on my Kindle. I’ve really additionally ordered — they’ve managed to determine — they solely did it on Kindle initially, they’ve now printed it. It is really fairly an costly e book, however he explains why, principally as a result of they’ve printed it correctly and it is bought a great deal of diagrams in. So, he’s value a comply with typically, and his weblog is extremely fashionable. However simply that one speak, I am like, it was so visible, the speak was, and I feel there’s something for everybody in that speak, and it is simply actually stayed with me.
Helen Tupper: So, I did that train, becoming a member of some profession improvement dots, I did that train this 12 months. I used to be at a convention the place they bought us to color in these containers in your life in weeks —
Sarah Ellis: Oh, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — after which discuss it and mark out moments and see the way you had been, what you have bought left, primarily based on varied issues. It was a very fascinating dialogue. However on Wait However Why, there may be, I’ll hyperlink to it within the PodSheet that helps this episode, however you possibly can obtain the template and there is a complete article about how you should use it to your reflection. It is known as Your Life in Weeks and it is by Tim City
Sarah Ellis: There you go.
Helen Tupper: So, let’s simply transfer on to our third class. We now have finished TED Talks, I can eliminate that Submit-it word. Let’s discuss podcasts. So, what’s a podcast episode or podcast collection that has been helpful for you? Shall I am going first?
Sarah Ellis: Go for it.
Helen Tupper: So, mine is a collection and it is on the How To podcast, which comes from The Atlantic, which I fairly wish to learn The Atlantic. I usually discover they’ve actually, actually good articles.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, they do.
Helen Tupper: And How To dives into every kind of issues, however they have a collection that is really type of lively in the intervening time. I feel it is likely to be collection seven of the podcast, nevertheless it’s like a ‘better of’ collection. So, it is like their, “Better of How To”. And so, there’s 4 within the collection, there’s 4 episodes which are dwell in the intervening time. There may be the How To Spend Time on What You Worth; How To Relaxation, which is with Alex Soojung-Kim Pang, who we have interviewed earlier than; there’s How To Construct Neighborhood; there’s How To Waste Time with Oliver Berkman; they usually’re type of summaries. However the motive that I actually like it’s as a result of it is fairly a pleasant type of end-of-year, start-of-the-new-year hear. It is very balancing, like listening — it is fairly a peaceful podcast, individuals aren’t overexcited. All these episodes are all about learn how to discover house and which means, however in fairly a sensible manner. I’ve discovered them simply good conversations to hearken to. They have not radically modified my pondering. I have not gone, “Oh, that is one thing I undoubtedly did not know earlier than”. However they’ve extra jogged my memory of some rules of relaxation, or that losing time could be as vital as being productive at work, typically much more so.
So, it is fairly a comforting hear. I feel the authors, they have a number of authors that they speak to on the podcast, are very, very fascinating. And there is only a few little, good questions and quotes in there which have caught with me, within the Spending Time on What You Worth, which is with Arthur C Brooks, who I like what he writes within the Atlantic as effectively; however, “Should you had an additional hour a day, how would you utilize it?” Simply as ideas on what you worth and what you prioritise. And he talks concerning the distinction between what you’ll do and what it’s best to do. So, for instance, what most individuals would do is that they’d most likely simply spend it on work. They’d most likely simply do extra of what they’re already doing.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, I used to be simply pondering I would most likely simply go for an additional stroll or learn.
Helen Tupper: Would simply go for an additional stroll and browse one other e book? Learn one other e book, I do know you’ll. However he mentioned really, the factor that’s confirmed to make you happier over the long run is your reference to different individuals. So, what it’s best to do is spend that point reaching out to someone or connecting with them.
Sarah Ellis: Okay, I did not consider that!
Helen Tupper: That’s the factor that really makes you cheerful over the long run in your life, nevertheless it’s not the factor that individuals typically select on with out desirous about it. However it made me assume and I loved it, and I really discovered it only a enjoyable hear.
Sarah Ellis: I will hearken to these, they sound nice. And I do know a few of these individuals and I do know I am going to take pleasure in spending time with them, in order that’s good. Podcasts are fascinating for me, as a result of a bit such as you had been saying, you have not learn hundreds extra books, I have not listened to a great deal of new podcasts, I feel partly due to how I hearken to podcasts. And I hearken to them as virtually an escape from work. And so, it is really fairly uncommon that I hearken to a podcast to do with work. It usually tends to be very intentional. Our good friend, Bruce Daisley, despatched us a podcast hyperlink the opposite day for Information Tree podcast, which is excellent. And I most likely will hearken to that episode, as a result of he despatched a selected episode going, “Oh, that is good should you write books”. And I believed, “Oh, okay”. I imagine his advice, and we do try this factor.
So, I are likely to hearken to a number of comedy podcasts and meals podcasts, issues that I feel aren’t that helpful for work. And that is not one thing I plan to vary, as a result of really I actually take pleasure in that and sit up for it. However I feel it’s typically good simply to combine up what you’re listening to. And so, I’ve bought two, each of that are listening to people who find themselves exterior of my regular world, each really private world {and professional} world. So, This Cultural Life is a Radio 4 podcast, and the general public, 90% of the people who find themselves on This Cultural Life, I have not heard of, however their work is fascinating. So, perhaps they’ve designed the units for Beyonce or Taylor Swift’s present, or —
Helen Tupper: Es Devlin?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, so Es Devlin’s been on it, yeah. She’s been on it, who we do really each, effectively, we do not know, however we each know of her.
Helen Tupper: I want I did know Es Devlin!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, she’s very, very cool. And a well-known individual I listened to not too long ago that individuals will know, so Invoice Nighy was on it. And what’s actually fascinating is, it is type of a meander via someone’s cultural influences. And so they’ve usually finished actually fascinating issues, labored with actually fascinating individuals, they usually’re speaking about the place they get their inspiration from, what has impacted them. They’re very reflective and artistic conversations, however they’re at a really totally different tempo to, I feel the tempo that we spend our days. They’re slower in tone and even the tempo with which the presenter speaks and the individual speaks. They’re very explorative. And there is very not often something that afterwards I feel, “Oh, I will use that in a workshop or write that down for work”, and even share that with anybody else. However I feel that is fairly good for me; it is simply another.
Then I’ve additionally tried to, as a result of we do discuss this in workshops, and I used to be like, “When was the final time I did this?” So, usually we’ll say, “It is actually good sometimes simply to have a random act of curiosity”. Like, This Cultural Life is not one million miles away from issues that I’m inquisitive about, so I do not assume that counts as a random act of curiosity. I feel it must be one thing that you just’re like, “I’d not usually hearken to this. This isn’t one thing I would usually select to spend time with”. And also you’re simply doing it simply to be like, perhaps to place your self out of your consolation zone a bit, or simply to do one thing a bit leftfield. And so, I did hearken to The Relaxation is Politics. And if somebody mentioned to me, “Do you wish to hearken to The Relaxation is Politics?” the reply would have been, “No”. I get anxious with politics that persons are going to argue, and I’ve bought battle as a confidence gremlin, so I by no means wish to hear individuals arguing in my spare time or my private time ever. And I used to be like, “Oh, everybody’s going to be most likely fairly — it is most likely going to be fairly difficult conversations”. And likewise, I am not likely or immersed on the earth of politics.
So, I knew it was a preferred podcast and I knew Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart, who’re the 2 presenters, I knew of them as a result of most individuals within the UK would have finished; they’re fairly excessive profile figures. After which, I did hearken to among the episodes and it stunned me. I loved it and I discovered them fascinating. And so they had some politicians on who I feel I’ve seen in different contexts. And I do discover it fairly arduous the place I really feel like everybody’s disagreeing for the sake of it. However on the podcast, I feel individuals have extra space to be themselves, they don’t seem to be arguing with another person, they’re being requested. So, they have the liberty to share their story and their perspective. And so they do ask these politicians a bit about why they bought into politics and what they care about. And also you hearken to them and you are like, “Oh, these are individuals too”, which I feel you do know, however usually perhaps you do not hear that story.
Among the tales are literally actually inspiring, like why individuals get into politics and among the issues that individuals care about and issues that they’ve finished, and other people have labored actually arduous to get to that time. They do attempt to give these individuals house. They’ll gently disagree, or they may typically immediate or say, “Oh, you understand, there is a totally different perspective”. However in addition they have individuals like Reid Hoffman. I listened to Reid Hoffman’s episode this 12 months, who’s the founding father of LinkedIn. His episode is admittedly good as a result of he is clearly not a politician, however he’s inquisitive about politics. They’ve had Invoice Gates on. And so, I’ve not stored listening to it each week, it isn’t grow to be a daily podcast for me. I do now look in and see who it’s and assume, “I ponder if they will be fascinating”.
There was one man who they did a two-part episode with, who they each clearly actually admired. And I would, once more, by no means heard of this individual, a man from Scotland who I feel was talked into being an MP. They had been like, “Come on, you’ll be good at this”. And he clearly had finished a number of public service, actually been there for his group and did some actually fascinating jobs. And so, it is type of transformed me, and it is jogged my memory why typically you do must spend time with issues that you just would not usually. And you will not like all of them, and that is okay, however yeah, it was an actual standout for me as a result of I virtually put it on angrily, I used to be like, “I do not even wish to hearken to this”. After which I used to be like, “Oh, that is really fairly fascinating”.
Helen Tupper: On that type of like, you have to type of hear exterior of your regular bubble, my mentor, Julie, really useful me the Legacy podcast. And I listened to fairly a number of episodes of that. And that is the place two historians discuss two historic figures. So, like I listened to a little bit quick collection on Cleopatra, one on Cecil Rhodes, one on Napoleon Bonaparte, and it is of no relevance to my world, however I used to be like, “Oh, fascinating. Oh, that is why it is known as that”. You understand it is like typically, these historic figures have a relevance at this time? And among the issues that we are saying or know, I hadn’t joined the dots. So, yeah, that was one other one. I feel typically you will get to these leaps by asking different individuals, “What do you hearken to?” after which go, “I’ve by no means heard of that”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I feel I would stolen that from another person. As a result of usually in our workshops, we’ll say, “What’s one factor you are studying, watching, or listening to that is serving to you to study or to remain curious?” and many individuals share The Relaxation is Politics. And so I believed, “Oh, are you aware what, there’s sufficient swell of individuals saying, ‘That is value your time’, that it is value giving a go to”.
Helen Tupper: So, let’s speak class quantity 4: blogs and newsletters. I imply, that is such a cheat since you and I are presupposed to have one for every one in every of these, and I am undecided on any class but, have we simply talked about one, however we’re allowed. So, to begin with, Peps Mccrea, I do not know if that is learn how to say his full title, so I am sorry, Peps, if that is incorrect, however he has a publication known as Proof Snacks and it’s all about schooling, so it is schooling, psychology and studying, very a lot within the context of faculties.
Sarah Ellis: Fascinating.
Helen Tupper: However I feel there are some very fascinating insights. He is excellent, they’re very particular, they’re very effectively researched. You possibly can go on Proof Snacks, you will get the publication, and I usually scroll via and assume, “Oh, I did not know that [or] that is a good suggestion. How may that relate to the world of labor?” So, I feel should you’re inquisitive about studying or schooling, Proof Snacks is nice, join the publication. It is excellent.
Sarah Ellis: We’ll be subscribing straight after this. Sounds good.
Helen Tupper: I prefer it. After which the final one, much less you, extra me, is Surprise Instruments by Jeremy Caplan. That’s all about, effectively, in the intervening time it is fairly AI-focused, I’d say, however instruments that show you how to be higher at what you do. And that is as a result of they make you extra environment friendly or they make your life simpler. Once more, weekly publication. I actually appreciated his roundup of the highest 10 of the 12 months. Additionally, I used to be going via it and I used to be like, “Oh, 5 of these I’ve used”. So, there was like perplexity.ai, there was ideogram, for instance. I used to be like, “Oh, I do not really feel so dangerous”. I’ve really, this 12 months, experimented with 5 of these, and I’d get on board with the opposite 5 now in the event that they’re within the high ten. So, I actually like Jeremy Caplan. Extra should you like tech, experimenting, effectivity, that type of stuff, I’d go for his.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, it is fascinating, is not it, with blogs? The factor that I discovered arduous with them, as a result of I subscribed to fairly a number of, is then ensuring you really learn them.
Helen Tupper: Sure.
Sarah Ellis: And I feel that is fairly an fascinating studying behavior is pondering, “Nicely, okay, there’s extra newsletters than you have bought time for”. However with those that you just do obtain, how do you just be sure you do then — as a result of I do know the standard of among the newsletters that I get is admittedly good. However typically, I simply discover it difficult to then determine, “When do I…?”, like a when query, “When do I learn this?” So, one of many issues I am pondering I’d do in 2025 is simply have the identical second each week after I assume, I am going to put all my newsletters in the identical folder and I am simply going to spend half an hour studying these newsletters.
Helen Tupper: I believed the identical factor, as a result of I do not assume I’ve that devoted time.
Sarah Ellis: Identical.
Helen Tupper: And I feel some weeks, I do miss them. However really, this train of wanting again at them I used to be like, “Gosh, these make my mind higher, they’re value me spending time with”.
Sarah Ellis: And you do not at all times must learn them. So, should you do not already watch Christine Armstrong’s weblog on LinkedIn, then you possibly can subscribe and he or she emails the video to you, should you simply discover that simpler. There are many video blogs on the market now, and Christine’s is simply so good. She’s so humorous. And truly, I do fairly like the truth that it is video. There’s most likely one thing about that that typically I am going to watch that on a prepare. They’re at all times quick, they usually’re a very good mixture of matters, and he or she at all times manages to learn the room, learn the Zoom proper, I feel, by way of type of what’s on individuals’s thoughts. So, I do are likely to at all times watch Christine’s, and hers is at all times on a Friday, so I do know it is approaching a Friday. And it is the precise type of factor that I wish to watch on a Friday as effectively, so I feel she’s bought the day of the week proper.
However my weblog selection was the Farnam Avenue weblog, which is Shane Parrish’s weblog. And the rationale I feel I like that weblog a lot, and truly it is an fascinating one, I usually go on to the web site, old-school, somewhat than essentially it coming into my inbox, as a result of I belief his take. So, his blogposts are often primarily based on conversations he is had with the precise individuals, or he is finished a number of analysis. They’re easy, they’re simple to learn, however they’re at all times considerate. And I do not assume they’re easy, however with out being overly simplified, which I feel is kind of arduous to get proper. And so, one factor I used to be studying loads about this 12 months was, he talks concerning the Richard Feynman — and Richard Feynman is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist — studying method. And so, I used to be getting my head round that studying method, and I used to be like, “I do know the place’ll have a very good abstract of this, the Farnam Avenue weblog”, which it does. We’ll put the hyperlink to that within the PodSheet and the present notes from at this time.
What I usually discover is by studying that article or that weblog from Shane, I then begin clicking round. So, I used to be studying concerning the protégé impact, which is basically if you understand that different persons are going to study from us, we do a a lot better job of studying for ourselves, as a result of we then really feel a way of duty to share one thing in a manner that is smart. After which I found a very good Guardian article on the protégé impact, about the way it may help you study virtually something. After which, and I guess you may bear in mind this, Helen, as a result of we talked about this earlier within the 12 months, I found this concept of rubber duck debugging, which is when pc programmers practise explaining their code line by line to a plastic toy. And what they’re doing is that they’re verbalising their pondering course of, as a result of then they discover it simpler to establish potential issues of their programme. So, they don’t seem to be even instructing an individual, they’re instructing an inanimate object. However really, it actually helps them to not solely, I assume, study but additionally to go, “Oh, really I’ve noticed I’ve bought a niche [or] that does not fairly work.
So, that is the rationale I actually just like the Farnam Avenue weblog. I feel I usually do begin, it is a actually good beginning place to your data, after which you possibly can determine, “Do I’ve sufficient now for what I have to know, or do I wish to dig a bit deeper?” And there is usually good hyperlinks and it takes you in good locations. So, it is a very dependable and reliable supply of studying, should you’re simply inquisitive about a number of matters round studying and profession improvement, I feel.
Helen Tupper: So, final class is individuals to comply with, so perhaps some folks that we began following this 12 months or a really useful follower for individuals for subsequent 12 months. So, I’ve two.
Sarah Ellis: After all!
Helen Tupper: Customary; it is presupposed to be one, I’ve bought two!
Sarah Ellis: I imply, why we structured this podcast 5 issues, I do not know.
Helen Tupper: I do not know. It is like, “500 issues to assist your studying subsequent 12 months!” Nicely, there’s 5 classes.
Sarah Ellis: We most likely have to learn one thing on prioritising, or return to Essentialism, which is an excellent e book, which is like, “Prioritise! Filter!”
Helen Tupper: What I am going to do is I am going to make the PodSheet look actually neat, and actually summarise and fake that — I will prioritise for us after the episode! So, I’ve bought two individuals, they’re folks that I comply with really on LinkedIn. So, that is the place I discover it most helpful to comply with them. And they’re each, once more, to be sincere, they’re on the lens of productiveness, effectivity, techniques, which is one thing that simply naturally appeals to me. And the voices are Chris Donnelly and Ben Mear. I feel they do very helpful summaries, posts, actionable instruments that make me wish to strive them out. I learn the posts, they don’t seem to be too lengthy and I feel, “Oh, I wish to strive them out”. They’re additionally very talked-about. I feel Chris Donnelly’s bought one thing like 978,000 followers on LinkedIn.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay!
Helen Tupper: They’re fairly fashionable. So, it is possible chances are you’ll already comply with these individuals, however should you do not, be a part of the lots, provided that you are inquisitive about that productiveness, techniques, progress, you and your progress. Most likely are, as a result of that is why you hearken to this podcast, in order that they might be value following. What about you?
Sarah Ellis: Mine is a little bit of a cheat. So, one of many issues that when you’ve got been a loyal Squiggly Careers listener this 12 months, you’ll have heard me uncover the guidelines. And I really feel like I’m, in a number of methods, the least possible individual to desire a guidelines. One in all my values is selection. I do not like the concept of feeling constrained. And I feel my beginning assumptions with checklists is like, “Oh, I do not wish to do a job the place I’ve checklists, I do not need checklists to be a part of my life”. Nonetheless, I then learn The Guidelines Manifesto by Atul Gawande. And he talks about principally how checklists assist us in so many alternative conditions, and significantly round avoidable failures, “That are each frequent and chronic”, he says. And he mentioned, “Not solely that, they’re demoralising and irritating”. And I feel I felt that.
So, we have got loads higher this 12 months at sharing our mistake moments. So, we share our mistake moments utilizing Groups. So, with everybody in Superb If, everybody reads everybody else’s mistake moments. And the change that we have made this 12 months, which I feel has been actually useful, and it seems like a small factor, however I feel it is made a big distinction, is we used to only do it in our all-company channel, whereas we then created a channel within the one that everyone can see that particularly says, “Mistake moments”. So primarily, all of our mistake moments are in the identical place, so it’s a lot simpler to identify your individual threads and themes for your self, but additionally throughout the corporate. And I feel a number of our mistake moments are issues which are avoidable and preventable and comprehensible on the identical time. However neither of us prefer it, we each get actually annoyed with ourselves and like, “Why are we not doing this?”
What I’ve discovered actually fascinating is the reply to, “How are we going to repair this for the long run? What’s the motion we’ll take? What have we realized? So, what will we wish to do in a different way?” So, many occasions this 12 months, the reply has been, “Really, we might actually profit from a guidelines, as a result of this can be a repeatable motion, that is one thing we do greater than as soon as. And traditionally, really, we’ve not been nice at writing issues down, as an organization”. So, it’s a manner of type of codifying, “Okay, should you’re working a workshop in a room, do not forget that is the tech that you just want”, simply actually easy, fundamental stuff. Should you mentioned to me, “Do you assume it’s best to have the ability to bear in mind this?” I at all times assume, “Nicely, sure”. However you do not, the purpose is you do not, you do get issues improper. And so, I’ve then began following Atul’s work. Significantly, you possibly can return on issues just like the New Yorker. He is really been writing for a very very long time, not simply on checklists, however on learn how to get issues proper, learn how to do issues in a greater manner. I feel it is simply that this concept of checklists has each stunned me and caught with me, and I can already see how we’re discovering it actually useful.
My win, I feel, for this week was Helen saying to me yesterday, “You’ve got transformed me to the guidelines”. And so, I can even see the way it’s benefited us all collectively. And it is made me actually inquisitive about his work. I am most likely a bit extra open to following individuals who do speak a bit extra about, such as you mentioned, processes or issues which are extra about effectivity, whereas maybe beforehand, I’ve type of restricted my very own studying by going, “Oh, I am not as inquisitive about that. That typically feels a bit formulaic for me”, nevertheless it additionally simply reveals why it’s best to simply be actually open to only attempting various things out, as a result of it has been actually, actually useful and I am satisfied it makes us a greater firm consequently.
Helen Tupper: So, hopefully we now have given you a number of issues to subscribe to, to have a look at, to learn, on account of listening at this time. What we’ll do to make that simpler for you is we’ll put the hyperlinks to a prioritised model of what we have talked about on the PodSheet, and we’ll additionally do like a swipeable abstract of this and we’ll put it on our @amazingif web page on LinkedIn. And we might like to know what you’ll add to that checklist. So, when you’ve got bought a specific e book or a podcast or a publication or a TED Discuss that has actually resonated with you this 12 months, please go to the Superb If web page on LinkedIn and add it, in order that the group can have a much bigger curated checklist of assets that they’ll study from in 2025.
Sarah Ellis: However we simply wished to complete the 12 months by saying thanks. Thanks for spending time listening with us, studying with us. We love our Squiggly Profession group and we actually admire you displaying up each week, you recommending, you ranking, you do all of these issues. Numerous you may have come alongside to occasions this 12 months and it has been pretty to fulfill a few of you in actual life, which has been wonderful. Numerous you come to PodPlus on a Thursday, the place we type of do a workshop model of the podcast, and that is at all times nice to do too. So, podcasts are at all times a spotlight of our week, not simply the second we’re recording, but additionally the suggestions and the concepts that we get from all of you. And we all know you at all times have a selection about the way you spend your time. So, thanks for being a part of the Squiggly Profession group and we’ll see you in 2025. Bye for now.
Helen Tupper: See you quickly, everyone, bye.