00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:59: Why affect is essential
00:02:36: Seven expertise of affect
00:04:03: Important statements
00:10:27: Shocking subjects
00:15:01: Take-away actions
00:20:21: Closing ideas
Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And also you’re listening to the second week of the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. So, that is one thing that we’ve created to kickstart your studying in 2025, and likewise create a little bit of a neighborhood round one thing we actually care about, which is growth and focusing in your profession growth. Right this moment, Sarah and I are going to speak a couple of videobook which was recorded by Bob Cialdini and it is referred to as Affect: the Psychology of Persuasion.
Sarah Ellis: And so, why is affect essential in our Squiggly Careers? I believe there are some things when you consider affect. I used to be reflecting on, when do we have to have affect in Squiggly Careers, and I believe there’s two ‘whens’. There’s the when that is linked to your work, to your day job, after which there’s the when that is linked extra to your profession.
So, I believe in your profession, there are specific moments that matter the place you want to have quite a lot of affect. So, should you’re in an interview, you are attempting to affect that particular person to provide you a task; if you’re making a profession change, you are attempting to affect someone that you have these transferable skills, you are attempting to steer folks; and I believe in a extra day-to-day manner, which I believe is how affect usually in all probability exhibits up extra generally, we’re all attempting to affect one another, I believe, the entire time, which might really feel a bit uncomfortable. I believe as I used to be going via this videobook, fairly a couple of of the ideas and concepts did make me a bit uncomfortable. However I believe right here, that is actually about simply being good.
So, if we need to have impression, typically we have to share our work with different folks, we would like different folks to be on board with that work, to assist and to sponsor that work, so I do suppose affect does not should be — we’re not manipulating. As I used to be going via, the reconciliation I believe I bought via in my very own thoughts with a few of these concepts was, there’s a distinction between affect to extend your impression, and manipulation, which is extra, I do not know, seedy, and also you’re doing one thing in not a really good manner simply to get a sure or simply to get your individual manner.
After which, once I take into consideration the folks I’ve labored with who’ve actually unimaginable affect, I might by no means describe them as manipulative. I might simply all the time describe them as, they knew find out how to construct actually sensible relationships. And I believe there is a actually sturdy connection between your skill to construct sensible relationships after which your skill to affect. That was the method I went via as I watched the videobook!
Helen Tupper: Effectively, to be truthful, I believe Bob Cialdini within the videobook does acknowledge that on fairly a couple of factors.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, he does.
Helen Tupper: So, if that is the primary time you are coming throughout his work, he principally talks via these seven totally different expertise actually of affect, these various things that you are able to do to affect an consequence. And I’ve come throughout his work years and years in the past. I imply, his e book is a New York Occasions bestseller, after which some. And I believe I got here throughout it within the context of selling in all probability like ten years in the past, as a result of in advertising, quite a lot of time you are attempting to affect somebody to buy. And so, they’re significantly related to that career, in addition to work and careers extra broadly. However he does speak within the videobook about when someone is perhaps utilizing this explicit talent of affect in a manner that is a little more manipulative, and what are the watch-outs for that. So, I believe he does cowl it. And his insights about these expertise are based mostly on years and years of analysis.
So, within the videobook and his precise e book, there’s quite a lot of analysis that he talks via to carry this stuff to life. So in the present day, Sarah and I are going to speak about a few of these expertise.
We will discuss issues that caught with us and issues that we discovered stunning and issues we’ll do on account of watching the videobook. After which tomorrow, you may hear a dialog with me and Bob, the place he really shares a couple of extra of these form of analysis tales. You may hear a bit bit extra from his perspective, a number of years on after writing the e book, his form of up to date view, as a result of in actual fact there is a new talent that he added extra lately, which is one thing referred to as ‘unity’, the ability of unity in influencing folks. However we will see whether or not that was one thing that caught with Sarah or not. So, go on, let’s begin. What was one thing that caught with you from watching the videobook?
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, the phrase that I wrote down was this concept of ‘peersuasion’. And that is the idea of what he describes as ‘social proofing’, which is actually we’re actually impacted by our friends, so what different individuals are doing, folks that we possibly really feel are much like us, and even simply doing an identical factor to us. After we make choices, we’re nearly much less influenced by what we predict and extra influenced typically by what different folks suppose. And once more, I am going, “Oh, I can see how that’s true, but additionally I need to be influenced by what I believe”.
However should you then take into consideration purchasing, so while you go onto a lot of web sites now, it all the time says, you realize, “29 different individuals are taking a look at this merchandise”, actually a boring merchandise I am normally shopping for for my new home, like this bin, it is normally a bin. “29 different individuals are taking a look at this bin”, or issues like, “5 different folks have gotten this bin of their basket” and I believe it creates a way of urgency and he talks about this FOMO, Worry Of Lacking Out. And I nearly felt like really understanding that, typically understanding a few of these techniques, you can also make a alternative about whether or not to be influenced by them. So, fairly than simply pondering, “Effectively, I am going to purchase this bin as a result of everyone’s shopping for this bin”, you suppose, “Effectively, do I actually need this bin? Is that this the correct bin for me?” which tells you a bit about what’s occurring in my life proper now and the way boring it’s!
Helen Tupper: It is quite a lot of bin chat!
Sarah Ellis: It is quite a lot of bin chat. However I used to be pondering from a piece context, I do suppose it’s attention-grabbing, as a result of typically I believe while you’re attempting to affect, you consider the particular person. So, I is perhaps like, “Oh, I must affect Helen round this resolution that I would like her to say sure to”. And that is perhaps true. However one different factor that I would need to do is consider, nicely, who does Helen spend time with? And who’s Helen influenced by?
As a result of I’ve typically seen this with management groups. Like, this is the reason folks find yourself, possibly earlier than choices, going to have conversations with fairly a couple of totally different folks, as a result of if you will get a couple of folks on board after which if Helen wasn’t that certain however her friends have been all saying, “Oh, yeah, I believe it is a good thought, I believe we needs to be investing on this”, then Helen might need been on the fence, however possibly that is the sort of tipping level to suppose, “Okay, nicely, I respect the opinions of the folks that I work with, the friends that I work with, and so really, it is an attention-grabbing manner of influencing. I used to be beginning to consider careers and taking actions round careers, and the way we may assist folks with that by form of going, nicely, really, should you create a very sturdy neighborhood, if you consider peersuasion as neighborhood, which is one other tackle it, really communities performing collectively and sharing what they’re doing will assist to affect, have a very constructive ripple impact. So, somebody may say, “Oh, nicely, I attempted asking this strengths suggestions query. That is the query I requested, and have you learnt what? It labored rather well”. After which in that neighborhood, you go, “Oh, okay, nicely, they’re all a part of the Squiggly Careers neighborhood, possibly I am going to have a go at asking that query”. I may think about then the ripple results of peersuasion really being actually constructive should you put that neighborhood lens on it, “Oh, however he does not discuss that, however this was me making my very own connections”, in order that’s the place I bought to.
Helen Tupper: I believe that can be why we’re asking folks to share their badges to say, you realize, “I am a part of the Videobook Membership”, as a result of while you see folks such as you studying, it makes you need to be taught too. There’s one thing he stated, I wrote down, within the videobook on this level, and he stated, “If they’ll, I can”. That is sort of a part of the peersuasion. And so, if you have not shared your Videobook Membership badge but, please do, as a result of then extra folks will need to be taught like you might be. The factor that caught for me was the factors he stated about authority.
So, considered one of his rules is that we’re influenced by folks in positions of authority. And there is one thing I believe in what he stated, which is useful so that you can know, so how one can affect folks together with your authority. After which I believe it is also, you realize, Sarah talked in regards to the watch-outs. I believe there is a little bit of a watch-out to this as nicely. So, particularly what he stated that caught with me was that, “You will get authority both since you are in authority”, which is positional energy, you realize, you are a supervisor, you are a director, you are a head of the undertaking, no matter it’s, so positional energy, “or you might be an authority”, so you might be seen as someone who has experience in that space. And I believe we aren’t all the time in authority, we have not all the time bought that position in an organization, however I believe that you’ve the ability to turn out to be an authority. So, if I take into consideration us, I have not had a Head of HR job in an enormous company, however I might argue that we’re an authority on profession growth, as a result of we’ve actually targeted on that space and we have executed quite a lot of work on that space and we have written books on it. However that’s one thing that nobody stated to us you’ll be able to or cannot do this, we determined to do this and we have turn out to be an authority in that space.
I do like the concept that that’s one thing that is in all of our management. We’d not be in authority, however we will all turn out to be an authority, and that has affect over others. So, I like that, that caught with me, as a result of I felt it is extra liberating than the ladder, proper? The ladder is all about being the authority due to positional energy, and I discover this thought extra liberating. However the watch-out is the truth that we’re influenced by this stuff, significantly people who find themselves in authority, so they have that positional energy. That may be every part from they are a senior director or they’re a health care provider or, you realize, this stuff the place we put labels on folks as a result of we see them as somebody who’s in authority.
However simply because they’re in authority doesn’t imply that what they are saying, you need to go together with or consider. I believe simply having a little bit of a pause and saying, “Simply since you are in authority, does that imply I actually need to be influenced by you?” and simply asking your self that query, as a result of intuitively, that does have an effect on us; however should you pause and simply query, “However do I actually need to be influenced by you simply since you’re in authority?”, I believe it is fairly a very good behaviour to construct in the way in which that you just suppose and the way in which that you just need to be influenced by issues. So, what stunned you then? What was one thing you have been like, “Oh, did not anticipate that”?
Sarah Ellis: There was an instance that he shared about purchasing trolleys or purchasing carts, as I believe they’re described within the US. It stunned me and felt actually memorable as typically, I believe possibly typically we’ll make the error of pondering, when you have a good suggestion for one thing, that can create affect, like if the standard of the thought is nice, that is ok. So, I am going to share an thought with you, and I will be like, “I really feel like I am actually assured on this thought and truly, by me sharing the thought, that can affect you, as a result of so long as I share it in the correct manner, it is a good suggestion”.
However this instance proves that a good suggestion is usually not ok to steer folks, to affect folks, significantly round, I assume, behaviour change or doing one thing totally different. The purchasing trolley instance is, years and years in the past, there’s principally the man, he owned some supermarkets and he went and watched his prospects, which I all the time suppose is a very good manner to consider affect, like go and spend time with folks. We typically discuss empathy experiences, you realize, spend time observing, watching how do folks really behave fairly than declare they behave, which frequently there’s fairly an enormous distinction between these issues. And from spending time in his supermarkets, he realised that individuals’s baskets, which is all folks had at the moment, once they bought too full, clearly they bought too heavy and you then spend much less cash, you cease purchasing. And he invented the purchasing trolley. And I used to be like, “Superb, what an innovation!” And you’d think about that concept would converse for itself. I am like, you should not should affect folks, certainly you are identical to, “However look, it is greater and on wheels!”
Helen Tupper: “A much bigger basket on wheels, wonderful!”
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, however no one used them. So, folks did not use them as a result of folks would actually stroll previous them and everyone defaults again to previous behaviour. And the way in which that he bought folks, the way in which that he influenced and persuaded folks to no less than give them a strive, was he principally used his personal folks to then go and principally role-model the behaviour that he was on the lookout for. And so, then I believe it does must be a good suggestion, as a result of should you go and take a look at it and it does not work, then clearly it does fall down. However I believed it was a very helpful reminder, as someone who loves arising with concepts, that concepts alone are sometimes not sufficient.
You’ll want to get folks attempting it and you could take into consideration how do you make it straightforward to do this, how are you going to get different folks role-modelling it, these sort of early adopters. And typically, you might need to suppose actually creatively about what that appears like, and that may begin the affect and persuasion that then offers your concepts the legs that you just’re on the lookout for. So, yeah, I imply partly in all probability as a result of I’ve labored in grocery store, however I simply liked the instance. I believed it was a very attention-grabbing story, and I may actually join it to the work that we do, the place typically I believe I might be a bit responsible of typically pondering, “Effectively, what we have give you is so sensible, it’s going to be high-quality, as a result of it is so sensible. Why would folks not need to use this?” Whereas you are like, “Okay, really, we have set to work a bit tougher”. It was a very good reminder.
Helen Tupper: There was one factor that I used to be like, “That may be a good level”, which is the, ‘get a small sure to a much bigger sure’. I used to be like, “Oh, I would forgotten about that time”. So, once more, within the videobook, there’s this instance given about they needed folks to place an enormous signal outdoors their home about, was it about environmental issues or one thing, recycling?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: I am unable to bear in mind. They needed folks to place an enormous signal and other people simply would not do this, as a result of who needs a large signal outdoors their pretty home?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, on their garden.
Helen Tupper: Yeah. And so, that was an enormous ask they usually bought an enormous no. So, what they did as an alternative within the experiment was they knocked on the homes they usually stated, “Would you assist this marketing campaign we’re doing by placing a small sticker in your window? And since that was a smaller ask, they bought extra yeses. However the actually attention-grabbing factor is, once they went again to these homes per week or two later and stated, “Thanks on your assist, would you be keen to place this register your backyard to assist us?” way more folks stated sure.
So, I believe at work, if there is a huge ask, possibly do not go in first with an enormous ask. Take into consideration what can be a smaller ask that’s extra prone to result in a sure, and you then’ve bought that small dedication.
And it implies that then, while you go in with a barely greater ask, you are ranging from a barely totally different place. I would form of forgotten that time, and I believed that is fairly a great way, as a result of typically you simply deal with the massive factor that you really want, and you then get a no and you’re feeling a bit defeated by it. However going, “Effectively, if that is what I would like, what’s the very first thing I’ll ask for?” to nearly heat the dialog up, after which I can return to that particular person for the larger factor. So, transferring on to motion then, what are you going to do in a different way on account of having watched this videobook?
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, one of many issues that did stand out for me was precisely what you have simply described, round small actions result in vital actions. And he describes specifically, should you do need to affect somebody to do one thing, if they’ve an motion that’s constant, actually energetic and public, such as you’ve really shared an motion, I assume it is like sharing a videobook on LinkedIn, that is a public discussion board; I guess, it is a speculation, however I guess should you share that you just’re a part of the Videobook Membership on LinkedIn, you might be more likely to look at the entire videobooks, simply because you’ve gotten publicly dedicated, though nobody’s watching you or holding you to account.
Helen Tupper: I’m everyone, I’m!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, aside from Helen, who someway is watching you all! So, I used to be serious about, I’m wondering what this might imply for a way we strategy profession growth. So, typically we do, in our workshops and in our programmes, we’ll discuss small actions. So, I used to be like, “Oh, that is a very good factor”. So, fairly than us saying, we’d discuss strengths-based suggestions is an efficient factor, however then we’d all the time drill right down to it; one small motion you’ll be able to take is, ask your supervisor or a colleague three phrases to explain me at my greatest. Or fairly than saying, discover your values, we’d say, write down three issues that matter to you at work. So, I used to be like, “Oh, that is good”.
So, I believe we do the small motion factor nicely. What I do not suppose we do as nicely is the making it public. So, typically on the finish of a workshop, I’ll say to folks, or on the finish of a programme, I’ll typically say to folks, “Share within the chat now the one motion you are going to take”, and I get some folks doing that, however manner fewer than I might have in that group. And so, I am not getting that many individuals to share publicly their motion. After which consequently, I am in all probability influencing these folks lower than I might need to, as a result of I would like these folks to go and take these actions. And I bear in mind the instance within the videobook of, Bob Cialdini was attempting to get his college students’ mother and father to fill out a type, and principally none of them did it as a result of who likes filling out a type? After which he modified his strategy the place he stated to the mother and father, “For those who fill out this way, your child will get one further level of their task”, or no matter it was. And I used to be like, “Oh, that is attention-grabbing”. You are simply giving folks a small motivator to do one thing that you really want them to do.
You are attempting to affect them to do it. I used to be pondering, there is no payoff actually. There is no promise or no payoff that I give folks as a part of our studying to share their motion. I simply principally say — I do say, “Share it, and should you share it, you are extra prone to decide to it”, like sharing works. However there is no instant payoff, there is no in-the-moment payoff. And so I used to be pondering, how may I finish these classes in a different way that will imply, for instance 25% of individuals share their small motion now, what would it not take for me to affect 85% of these folks to share their small motion?
So, I used to be pondering possibly that will be, for everybody who shares their motion, may we then instantly ship them one thing at no cost? Might we ship them a brief model of Gremlins, like find out how to overcome your confidence Gremlins? Might we share with them some unique content material that you just solely get should you’ve shared your motion. So, I hadn’t fairly bought to what I might then give that individuals would actually worth, as a result of I believe it is bought to be one thing like, everyone needs yet another level on their task, proper? So, I like how easy and straightforward and compelling that’s. And so, I hadn’t fairly bought but to what our factor can be, however I did just like the psychology of that. And I consider that that was a win-win. It is a win for us if folks go away and take motion, like we’re influencing folks to take motion as a result of it can create a snowball impact of growth and studying; and I consider that I’m influencing folks for the correct causes, it felt like a very good factor to affect.
Helen Tupper: So, I did have the peersuasion factor as nicely, however I believe one of many actions I want to take is, one of many rules that we have not talked about an excessive amount of but is reciprocation. So, if I assist somebody, they’re extra probably to assist me, so I can affect them by giving first. And I sort of knew that, we have talked about that earlier than, it is one thing that comes up in Adam Grant’s work on Give and Take, and we’ve this precept in our work referred to as, ‘folks serving to folks’, which is form of based mostly on that, that individuals like to provide and givers get extra. So, I sort of already knew that.
However the factor that I took from the videobook was that the timing is de facto essential. So, if you’re giving to someone with the intent, I believe, of influencing, and I do not suppose all giving is with the intent of influencing, however if you’re giving with the intent of influencing, then the timing of that’s essential. So, I am not going to provide to Sarah on a Monday after which in two weeks’ time, make an ask. I simply want to consider, nicely, when is Sarah going to be nearly most receptive to reciprocation, and simply suppose a bit bit extra deliberately about who I am giving to and what I am giving and once I’m giving.
As a result of I believe I like giving, giving feels good. But when I need to affect then I simply must be a bit extra intentional. That is in all probability simply the motion I’ve taken away from it. So, that’s the finish of in the present day. We might love to listen to your reflections should you’ve been watching the videobook. So, you’ll be able to both electronic mail us these ideas and insights. We’re helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com, or you’ll be able to be a part of the neighborhood dialog which is going on on LinkedIn stay this week, the week of the podcast, on Thursday. So, we would like to see you there and listen to what you have to say if you wish to be a part of that. And we additionally need to say an enormous thanks to Lit Videobooks, who’ve made it potential for everybody to be taught within the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership, as a result of they’ve given you all free entry to their videobooks for 2 months. So, don’t fret if you have not watched it but, you have bought till the top of February to get entry to the videobooks.
Sarah Ellis: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking about burnout and stress, which I promise will likely be extra enjoyable than it sounds. So, be a part of us for that, however that is every part for in the present day. Thanks a lot for listening and we’ll be again with you once more quickly. Bye for now.
Helen Tupper: Bye everybody.