00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:59: Present construction
00:01:51: Cause for the subject
00:03:40: Vital statements
00:09:15: Stunning matters
00:12:13: Take-away actions
00:16:25: Ultimate ideas
Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And also you’re listening to the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership! It is a new collection, Sarah, it is a new factor for the brand new yr. Are you excited?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: She is happy and that is going to be very helpful in your studying, everybody. That is week one of many Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. Thanks for becoming a member of us. Hopefully, you are all signed up, so you have bought your entire login to LIT Videobooks and you have got all the pieces that it’s essential study together with us this month. This week, our focus is on change, and the videobook that we’re going to be diving into and discussing is Methods to Change by Katy Milkman. So right now, you have bought a dialog the place Sarah and I are going to share our reflections from what we discovered from the videobook after which tomorrow, in order that what’s coming, Sarah has a dialog with Katy to get her perspective immediately. So, you have bought a kind of two-part podcast, quick dialog right now between me and Sarah with our learnings, after which a dialogue with Sarah and Katy tomorrow.
Sarah Ellis: And so, the construction for our conversations collectively, we’ll begin with why we selected the subject, why we thought it was related within the context of Squiggly Careers; we’ll then share, from watching the movies, a press release that caught out to us; then, one thing that stunned us, so perhaps simply one thing we did not know earlier than, or perhaps one thing that was counter to our present opinions; after which, an motion that we’re personally going to take having watched the videobook, as a result of I feel that is all the time what we’re attempting to do once we’re studying, is you do not simply wish to study in a vacuum, you all the time wish to be pondering, “Properly, how may this studying assist me; how can I be higher as a result of I’ve frolicked watching this videobook?” and that is the place it begins to really feel actually related for you, in your roles, in your profession.
So, we have tried to do this as effectively, and hopefully that’ll offer you a little bit of inspiration to get began too. So, change in a Squiggly Profession, in all probability the best one to attach the dots between Squiggly Careers and alter, as a result of we are going to all the time say that our careers right now are characterised by that change and uncertainty, the potential and prospects. And I used to be pondering, there’s change that occurs to us, so there’s usually numerous change that we expertise at work that’s out of our management, we’d not know it will occur, so we do not anticipate it or we’re stunned by it; after which, there’s change that you simply select. And I feel modifications that you simply select will be actually small or they are often actually vital, and it is the second kind of change that we’re actually specializing in right now and that the videobook actually focuses on. So, whether or not you wish to make a small change, like redesigning the way you perhaps get your work executed, or simply getting a bit higher at setting boundaries in per week, or whether or not you are like, “No, I’ve bought a extremely huge change in thoughts”, we’re speaking profession change, we’re speaking, “I’m going to train a lot extra this yr than I’ve ever executed earlier than”, or perhaps you have bought, that is the yr you are doing a marathon. I noticed somebody we’re linked with, truly Daisy Buchanan, who’s been on the podcast earlier than, is doing the London Marathon.
So, whenever you’re like, “Wow, she’s bought a big — I do not assume she’s executed a marathon earlier than”, in order that’s a big change that you simply’re like, “Properly, I’ve not executed one thing and I’ll do one thing”. I usually assume with change, it is a from and a to, I all the time consider froms and tos. And so, I feel we’re all making modifications on a regular basis, we’re all selecting these modifications that we wish to make and I feel it is all the time honest to say that a few of them are extra profitable than others, like some work and a few do not, and I feel watching this videobook helps you to determine what to do to present your self a greater probability of succeeding with any sort of change that you simply select. So, Helen, what was the assertion that caught out for you?
Helen Tupper: And by the way in which, Sarah and I’ve not shared our solutions.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, no.
Helen Tupper: So, there’s a hazard that it is the similar assertion, the identical stunning factor. And likewise, in the event you hear me flicking, it is as a result of I made plenty of notes. I all the time assume that is an indication of watch, is the place you have made a great deal of notes. So, the assertion that caught for me was, “Effectivity is laziness”. Did that work? That is not yours?
Sarah Ellis: No. I do do not forget that from the videobook and really, I did speak to Katy a bit about that, so I feel it is a good one to pick.
Helen Tupper: So, my takeaway from that assertion was, if you would like change to occur, truly we will sort of play into our sort of human laziness. So, you make it mainly actually, very easy to do one thing. She talks about designing defaults into your work. So, for instance, as an example you assume, “Oh, have you learnt what? I wish to begin my day with studying”, that is your factor, you are like, “I wish to begin my day with studying. That is one thing that I wish to do that yr. And so, I’ll put ten minutes of studying in my diary initially of every single day”.
Now, I’d say that is solely 50% of how you’ll make that occur. So, it is good that you’ve got put that into your diary. That does make it a bit simpler in the event you’ve designed it into your day, it has grow to be a little bit of a default. However you have not put the educational into that second. You’ve got nonetheless bought to search for the educational, proper? And so, I feel truly, in the event you put a coach-yourself query in, so you place in your week, you place your ten minutes in your diary initially of the day, and you then add the coach-yourself query in, so you’d actually open up that assembly, the query could be already there, then that is lazy studying, proper? You’ve got already executed the exhausting be just right for you. And so, I feel these sort of nudges and moments the place this factor that you simply wish to do is designed into your day and it has grow to be a default, I haven’t got to place loads of effort into making it occur.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, so mine was barely completely different. So, there is a phrase that Katy says the place she mentions, “Our thoughts is extra like a sieve than a sponge”. And I feel it is also slightly bit stunning as a result of I used to be like, “Oh, we all the time like to think about our minds as being spongy, once we’re studying and we’re absorbing loads”, however it’s value remembering how a lot we neglect, basically. And he or she talks about this concept of the ‘intention-action hole’, and straightaway I feel everybody goes, earlier than we even describe that, you get what that’s in the case of change.
All of us have the very best intentions, and there’s a purpose that we then do not fairly observe that by to motion, despite the fact that we wish to, it isn’t that we’re not dedicated to creating that change occur. And that is the place she talks about methods that simply assist us to shut that hole, in order that your intention is more likely to end in motion. And so, whether or not that is issues like dedication gadgets, and a few of these are extra, I feel it is honest to say, extra carrots and a few of these are extra stick. And the stick ones are inclined to work higher as a result of we’re extra motivated by issues like loss aversion. So, a dedication system will be, for instance, like a monetary penalty. Among the examples that she provides are like, “Okay, effectively if I do not do that, I’ve to present £10 or $50, I feel the instance is, to a charity that I do not assist”, which I discovered a bit — I used to be like, “However absolutely all charities are advantageous?” however she was speaking about them from a political perspective. I feel within the US, there’d be some charities which can be extra politically motivated.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, there is a man on the video who put £7,000, what was that web site? I used to be like, “I’ll lookup this web site”. Beeminder, and you’ll pay in your targets. So, I feel he had this factor, he was going to skydive, and if he did not do it by a sure day, he’d mainly lose $7,000.
Sarah Ellis: I do know, that is actually dramatic, is not it?
Helen Tupper: Wow, you should actually care about skydiving!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. And I do fairly like, I imply, a few of the videobooks, a few of the photographs or the movies do shock you. So, there’s knife-throwing in that video.
Helen Tupper: Sure!
Sarah Ellis: So, if you have not watched it but and you are like, “I wasn’t actually anticipating to see knife throwing, however…”
Helen Tupper: The man with no shirt on throwing a knife!
Sarah Ellis: I do know, actually good!
Helen Tupper: I used to be like, “Okay, good for you!”
Sarah Ellis: In each videobook I’ve watched to date, there’s something barely left area and random that I have been like, “Certain!” The opposite factor that may shut your intention-action hole is the individuals you encompass your self with. So, if I’ve bought one thing I wish to change, if I can discover another person who needs to make the identical change, and in the event you can have that accountability group or connection, that makes a extremely huge distinction. And reminders, however reminders that reduce by, so uncommon reminders that seize your consideration, so they are not too straightforward to disregard. And there is plenty of examples of these issues. It positively did make me assume, “Okay, I am fairly good at making intentions. I prefer to look forward and I am all the time fairly motivated by change”, however there’s positively typically a niche by way of these intentions and whether or not they come to fruition. And there are issues which you can begin to see that you simply’re like, effectively, if I put these items in place, it does not imply I am going to do all of them, however I feel your share hit charge of what number of modifications you truly make would positively go up.
Helen Tupper: It sparks some concepts. You recognize when she talked concerning the sort of stunning reminders, she had this instance of there was an alien on the video in entrance of a until.
Sarah Ellis: I speak to her about that within the interview! She’s bought the alien, like on the video she holds up the alien, she’s stored it!
Helen Tupper: So, the thought of the alien is it reminds you to do one thing. And it is virtually, as a result of it is stunning whenever you see it, it virtually acts as a little bit of a cue. And I used to be fascinated about our subsequent e-book, which I will not go into an excessive amount of now, however there are particular actions that we might need individuals to take on account of studying our e-book. And I used to be like, “Oh, how may we create the equal of the alien to assist individuals keep in mind to take motion?” However some insights for an additional day, but it surely positively sparked my pondering there. So, second factor, what was one thing that she talked about that stunned you?
Sarah Ellis: So, she describes this concept of the ‘contemporary begin impact’, and I feel in my thoughts, that is a type of issues that is virtually grow to be a bit commercialised, like New Yr, New You, and I used to be a bit sceptical about it and I used to be like, “I guess it does not work”. Like, January is not any completely different to some other month, virtually you must simply whenever you wish to make a change, you must simply make a change in that second. Nonetheless, what her analysis has proven is that truly, the contemporary begin impact is beneficial, as a result of it kind of primes us to wish to change to do one thing completely different. And so, it does not must be January, it may well truly be so simple as a Monday, like the beginning of per week; it might be put up your birthday; it may be put up a vacation.
Discovering these contemporary begin moments are literally good occasions to assume, “That is when I’ll begin to make a change”. So, I feel I would in all probability simply thought, “Oh, I simply guess that is not true”, as a result of we all the time take into consideration damaged resolutions, , how many individuals truly persist with them? However one of many factors she does make, and I can not keep in mind the precise numbers, is sure, plenty of individuals do not observe by on their resolutions, however have you learnt what? Fairly an enormous share of individuals do. And so, you usually give attention to what does not occur, however then we kind of lose sight of what does occur. And so, if you’re fascinated about making a change and also you’re listening to this in January, that could be a good time. We’re in the correct of second. And if for no matter purpose you are listening to this in one other second of the yr, you may virtually deliberately set a contemporary begin impact by pondering, “I am going to begin on Monday”, or, “I am going to begin after this huge occasion”, or, I do not know, “If I’ve bought Friday off, then the following Monday is likely to be time to do this”. I feel simply not underestimating how helpful the contemporary begin impact will be, that was what stunned me.
Helen Tupper: So, mine was additionally the contemporary begin impact, however in order that I do not simply repeat what you mentioned, and I am simply going to flick by my notes, environmental modifications can supercharge the contemporary begin impact. So, you have bought Sarah’s factor of like the beginning of per week, or the beginning of a brand new job, or one thing like which can be moments that create the contemporary begin. However in the event you add that to an environmental change so, “I am now working in a unique workplace”, or, “I am working in a unique house”, these two issues collectively, it is a new week in a brand new place, that basically, actually supercharges how efficient that is for the contemporary begin and the re-committing to issues. We will not all the time transfer workplaces, however we may work from a unique place. I may assume, “Are you aware what? On Monday, I’ll begin my day, I do not know, I’ll make money working from home on a Monday and I’ll work in a café within the morning”, or one thing like that. My contemporary begin dedication, no matter it’s I wish to obtain that week, is extra prone to be efficient if perhaps I begin the week working in a barely completely different place. Perhaps it is the novelty of the brand new is compounded by these two issues. I assumed, “That stunned me”. I hadn’t actually considered including these two issues collectively.
Sarah Ellis: So, what motion are you going to take? So, you have discovered loads about change, and I feel we each actually loved this videobook. We had been each fairly fizzy, weren’t we, after it?
Helen Tupper: Yeah!
Sarah Ellis: We had been like, “Oh, that is actually useful”. It truly prompted a great deal of concepts for the work we do supporting individuals with their Squiggly Careers, in addition to for the work do with organisations and for ourselves. I feel that is positively one the place we each felt like we discovered loads and there was loads to use, plenty of fascinating insights. So, from all the pieces, what was your motion?
Helen Tupper: I imply, I did just like the contemporary begin impact, so I did assume, “I would simply take into consideration, throughout the yr, the place are my pure contemporary begin moments?” I assumed I would simply map these moments slightly bit. So, Monday seems like one, how do I make {that a} contemporary begin? So, I like that. I additionally preferred, so you talked concerning the reminders and shutting the intention-action hole, and he or she talked concerning the alien, like a cue generally is a highly effective option to remind you of your intention? I assumed I would create a couple of extra cues for issues that I wish to do. So, what I wrote down was, “When, then”. I’ll create a couple of cues like, “When I’m on my Peloton, for instance, then I would take heed to a podcast”. I all the time go on about like, “Oh, I have not bought time to take heed to a podcast”. I sit on a Peloton for like two hours per week. I may in all probability Peloton while listening to a podcast. So, I assumed I would create a couple of extra ‘when, then’ cues to assist me persist with a few of the issues that I wish to do. So, that was simply an concept that was sparked by listening to her. What about you?
Sarah Ellis: So, mine was to be actually particular about modifications you wish to make. And so, one of many issues that I wish to do extra in 2025 is simply how a lot I am utilizing AI as a part of the job that I do. And so, beforehand I may need mentioned, “I simply wish to use AI far more than I do right now”, and I would be like, “That is the change I wish to make”. And I feel from watching and studying from Katy, I used to be like, “That is not ok, that is not going to assist me to vary”. And so, one thing that may be a lot better could be, “I’m going to experiment with including AI into each constant assembly and second we’ve got as an Wonderful If workforce”, so then you may actually pinpoint.
And there aren’t that a lot of these, however I would say, “in January”. So, virtually the extra you may drill down into precisely what that change goes to be, what that is going to appear like, when are you going to do it, how are you going to make that occur, it is sort of like visualising, I suppose, however you have written down with loads of readability what that change seems to be like. I feel I may in all probability even go additional. That was my first try, and even speaking to you now, I am like, “Oh, after which I may…” like, I added January then once we had been simply speaking.
I hadn’t truly bought that written down, as a result of I assumed, “Truly, have you learnt what? That in all probability feels sensible to do in a month”. After which truly, for February, I would in all probability wish to construct on that. Perhaps February is extra about attempting out some new instruments or some completely different instruments. And I feel by including that degree of what it seems to be like, I really feel such as you’re then kind of pre-determining, “I’ll do it”. And he or she talks loads about, whenever you say a change out loud, whenever you share it with different individuals, you kind of maintain your self to account a lot extra. Even in the event you’re giving recommendation to different individuals about AI, as a result of individuals will ask us much more now about AI and careers, you are then more likely to take that recommendation for your self. For one thing like AI, which I feel is a a lot larger a part of what we’re doing now with our studying and improvement round careers, I wish to practise what I am preaching, and to have the ability to give that recommendation in a extremely credible manner. So, I like this concept of being actually granular about change. You recognize the ‘5 whys method’, the place you drill down, you drill down, you drill down? I feel it is kind of making use of that sort of logic to modifications. So, in the event you’re listening now and you have got a change you wish to make, I’d actually encourage you to deliver it to life in as a lot element as you may, as a result of I feel it is actually useful, and I feel you see the gaps you have bought too.
Helen Tupper: It is fairly a pleasant hyperlink as effectively with subsequent week’s matter on affect, that concept of you make a dedication, after which what individuals are inclined to do is that they act in methods which can be per that dedication. So, having now mentioned out loud that that’s what you are going to do, you’re more likely to then act in ways in which reinforce what you have mentioned out loud to our hundreds of listeners and learners who’re a part of the Videobook Membership. So, that’s it for right now, as a result of we wish to maintain this quick so that you simply go spend a while hopefully watching the videobook and taking your personal learnings from it. However Sarah will likely be again tomorrow for her dialog with Katy. So, some fast insights into what we will anticipate from that dialog, Sarah?
Sarah Ellis: I feel Katy does a superb job of summarising the insights she’s gained from her analysis, which is over a protracted time period. She’s bought actually good examples. And one of many issues that we’ve not talked about right now, which we do speak about in our dialog, are issues like gamification and play, and the way vital having fun with change is, and this concept of one thing referred to as ‘temptation bundles’, which once more, neither of us have picked out in our dialog right now, however I did discover actually fascinating. So, there is a little bit of reinforcing a few of the ideas you and I’ve talked about, however there’s additionally numerous new information as effectively.
Helen Tupper: So, hopefully you discovered this a helpful dialog and that you’ll be part of us for our group dialogue, which is on Thursday. It is best to have the entire hyperlinks for that if you wish to come and contribute to that, but when you have not, simply electronic mail us, helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com. And thanks for becoming a member of us within the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. Sarah Ellis: Thanks a lot for listening everybody, see you once more quickly.