00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:02: Fast-fire questions…
00:02:23: …1: your yr in a phrase
00:05:02: … 2: most memorable day
00:09:09: … 3: mistake moments
00:15:46: … 4: an improved talent
00:20:48: … 5: appreciations
00:24:36: Reflective questions…
00:25:01: … 1: constructive influence
00:28:30: … 2: studying sources
00:35:14: … 3: this time subsequent yr
00:37:50: Ultimate ideas
Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Each week, we speak about a unique subject to do with work and share concepts, instruments and actions that can assist you, and it at all times helps us, to navigate our Squiggly Careers with that bit extra confidence and readability.
Helen Tupper: And in the present day is a particular episode as a result of it’s our 12 months in Evaluation episode, which is principally for our most frequent listeners. If that is the primary episode you’re listening to, I am undecided it’ll be essentially the most helpful, but it surely’s insightful.
Sarah Ellis: I feel the questions are going to be helpful.
Helen Tupper: That is true. We will ask one another a sequence of questions, some quick-fire inquiries to replicate on the yr, after which some barely deeper ones to get some perception from what we have accomplished and what we would do otherwise subsequent yr. So, the questions are helpful, our solutions is perhaps irrelevant. However if you’re a long-time listener, you would possibly discover it fascinating to listen to a bit of bit about our journey in working our enterprise, Wonderful If, and dealing collectively as associates and enterprise companions, and all of the issues that go along with that. Are you prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Prepared.
Helen Tupper: Okay, so we have 5 quick-fire questions. I really feel like I am a bit extra in management in the present day, as a result of I’ve received them written down.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, she has the iPad.
Helen Tupper: So, we have 5 quick-fire questions after which we have three barely extra considerate reflections. So, possibly I am going to ask you yours and I am going to do mine, so we’ll do forwards and backwards?
Sarah Ellis: Sure, yeah, let’s do it.
Helen Tupper: All proper, okay. So, the primary query, quick-fire query —
Sarah Ellis: And we do not know what we will say, so we do not share these with one another beforehand.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, nicely I do know what I will say, however I do not know what you are going to say!
Sarah Ellis: No!
Helen Tupper: I’ve accomplished some preparation!
Sarah Ellis: We all know half of it.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, as a result of these questions I feel, really, only a facet observe, if you’re going to do these questions, I feel placing individuals on the spot with them, I feel you need to give individuals these questions upfront of a dialog, simply to allow them to give it some thought a bit.
Sarah Ellis: And so you do not have recency bias, since you do must replicate. You are reflecting in your entire yr, you are not reflecting on what occurred within the final two or three weeks, and it is really easy to get distracted by that.
Helen Tupper: And we are going to get on to the questions, however I used to be going by way of, I did a LinkedIn submit, I do type of memorable moments from the yr, the place I’m going by way of my cellphone, 9,000 images from —
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God!
Helen Tupper: I do know, I checked out like my cellphone, I used to be like, “2024, it is like 9,000 images, that is rather a lot to scroll by way of!” After which I attempted to choose one picture from every quarter that was an actual memorable second for me. And that was really fairly a great prep for in the present day, as a result of it simply jogged my memory of sure issues that had occurred that I am undecided had been prime of thoughts after I was answering these questions first time round. You prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: Okay, so your yr in a phrase?
Sarah Ellis: Gritty.
Helen Tupper: Oh!
Sarah Ellis: What’s your yr in a phrase?
Helen Tupper: Grit! Yay!
Sarah Ellis: It seems we spent various time collectively!
Helen Tupper: Okay go on then, why was it gritty? You went ‘gritty’, I went ‘grit’.
Sarah Ellis: Sure, I feel gritty, as a result of it wasn’t like the entire yr wanted a lot of grit. However I believed there have been specific moments in each quarter of the yr the place collectively, really, we needed to be very gritty to get by way of them, both as a result of it was a problem that we might not anticipated; we had been attempting to complete one thing, and we’re each extra starters than we’re finishers, so it wasn’t essentially at all times one thing had gone incorrect; or that we had been simply discovering one thing arduous and it is tough, which I feel that is a great factor. It challenges you, however typically then that is the place you must be at your grittiest to make progress.
So, after I take into consideration once we had been gritty, the precise examples, the conditions and eventualities, are fairly assorted, but it surely was type of the identical talent that I felt like we needed to preserve drawing on to seek out our approach by way of these moments. And I at all times really feel actually happy with them as nicely. So, I do not suppose grit is a nasty factor. I do not have a look at all these moments and suppose, “Oh, that was as a result of one thing was incorrect”, essentially. Generally it was, but it surely’s form of the, what do you must do in these moments? You want to be gritty. Why do you say grit? The identical causes, or completely different?
Helen Tupper: Nicely, earlier than I had grit, I had the phrase, ‘push’, and I believed you would not prefer it!
Sarah Ellis: Push? How do you describe your phrase of the yr? Push! What had been you pushing? Me?! Push Sarah, do some extra work!
Helen Tupper: Nicely, I feel at first I used to be like, at occasions I felt we had been pushing towards one another a bit of bit once we had been attempting to create issues. We had been attempting to push issues. I felt like really, it might have been simpler to not do among the stuff that we did, however we had been like, “No, push on”. After which I used to be like, “Push is only a garbage … I imply, the phrase, ‘push’!” So, I went with ‘grit’.
Sarah Ellis: That was fairly bleak!
Helen Tupper: I do know, that is what I believed. So I used to be like, “I am unable to have push”, however I did have push after which I scratched it out.
Sarah Ellis: So principally, grit was your good aversion?
Helen Tupper: Sure, after which, you recognize why grit? As a result of I used to be going again to, the definition of grit from Angela Duckworth is, “Ardour and perseverance for long-term significant objectives”. And I used to be like, nicely, that is why we pushed, proper?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: As a result of we’re obsessed with what we’re attempting to realize. And we recognise that what we’re engaged on now’s greater than what’s taking place on this yr. It is the longer-term issues. So I used to be like, “No, it’s grit”, however at occasions it felt, ‘push’!
Sarah Ellis: Or, ‘pushy’!
Helen Tupper: Yeah, however then I received into, “Was I being pushy?” and I simply scrapped it. However I’ve talked about it now anyway, so.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, at the very least we’re constant.
Helen Tupper: Sure, however let’s examine.
Sarah Ellis: Let’s have a look at.
Helen Tupper: Let’s have a look at how constant we’re.
Sarah Ellis: Might be a bit boring if we’re the identical each time, so let’s hope we’re not.
Helen Tupper: I do know, gosh, are you able to think about? Okay, what was your most memorable day of the yr?
Sarah Ellis: I did battle with this, to actually select …
Helen Tupper: Have all of the good days all of a sudden blurred into simply …
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah, undoubtedly that. I did battle to select sooner or later the place I used to be like, “Oh, it was undoubtedly that day”. I feel once we do occasions, that at all times actually sticks in my thoughts, as a result of I feel numerous work goes into occasions. After which it is a very a lot form of a second in time the place you get to, you recognize, we have accomplished some dwell podcasts this yr, we have accomplished some work with our studying companions after they’ve all been in a room studying collectively. And I feel the rationale these moments at all times stick out is due to the power that is created, and power is one in every of our values at our firm. And I feel it is a second the place you’re feeling all that collective power, which I actually like.
And I feel it provides you a lift to proceed doing what you are doing, since you’re like, “Oh, what we’re doing is making a distinction”, and you’re feeling that and also you get to attach with individuals. So, occasions. I simply went, the entire occasions we do, I really feel power and I really feel prefer it provides me power. One different memorable second I did have although was we had been engaged on our e-book collectively, and I’ll at all times keep in mind the second the place we modified our minds —
Helen Tupper: Oh, yeah.
Sarah Ellis: — on how we had been going to construction the e-book. So, we had gone, I feel it is honest to say, fairly far down one —
Helen Tupper: I feel we might most likely written 30,000 phrases or extra by that time.
Sarah Ellis: Sure.
Helen Tupper: Which is half a e-book.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, do not, let’s not get particular as a result of it is actually miserable. However I actually keep in mind the second the place we might circle round a couple of occasions of like, “Oh, there could possibly be a unique approach of doing this”. I actually keep in mind standing up in that room, strolling over to the flipchart and saying to you, “If we did do that otherwise, let’s simply placed on a flipchart, let’s get it out of our programs, what would it not appear to be? And we wrote it. And I used to be standing up, you had been sitting down, which is normally how we brainstorm. I am meandering round and also you’re type of sitting again and taking a look at it, after which we each checked out it and we had been like, “That is higher”. And that second of realisation of —
Helen Tupper: “Oh, no!”
Sarah Ellis: — what we needed to let go of to get to one thing higher. We had been like, “This shall be higher as a result of we do that”, and it felt nearly concurrently robust, and the best factor to do. I’m actually happy with us in that second, as a result of I do not suppose that is a simple factor to just accept and to maneuver on from, and I feel we did do this. And we all know now, as a result of we have had sufficient individuals learn it, that it was the best factor to do. However I feel it is a courageous factor to do. So, it isn’t like that day was specific — we did not know that was going to occur that day, we simply thought we had been iterating on what we might already accomplished. However we made a large resolution that is really going to influence a great deal of the work that we do. I’ll at all times keep in mind strolling over to that flipchart.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I keep in mind it, I keep in mind it very nicely and being like, “Oh, that is it”.
Sarah Ellis: What was yours?
Helen Tupper: Mine was an occasion but it surely was the occasion that you just weren’t at.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, thanks! Nice.
Helen Tupper: It was superb.
Sarah Ellis: You say I am imply!
Helen Tupper: No.
Sarah Ellis: “That occasion that you just did not come to”.
Helen Tupper: No, it is as a result of it was like an actual second for me. So, we launched this yr, Gremlins, which is a e-book with Pound Venture, and we had a dwell podcast occasion the place we had varied individuals on the stage, like Daisy Buchanan for instance, all speaking about confidence, and this was on account of be a second —
Sarah Ellis: To have fun, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — to have fun. E-book writing is tough and it takes some time and it was presupposed to be, like, a second.
Sarah Ellis: I really like that e-book.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, and I am actually happy with the e-book and actually loved the method, and I feel Sarah typically leads issues with books, since you’re simply excellent at sticking with them, so it is an actual ‘you’ factor as nicely. And then you definately could not be there since you had been poorly, and I keep in mind being on that stage and pondering, “Oh, I do not actually need to do that with out you”. There was an actual second of me — it was a extremely good occasion and it was a very nice second, and the conversations had been actually good. And there was numerous help.
So, a few of my associates knew how I felt and so they had been within the viewers, and so they’d messaged me beforehand and so they had been like, “It will be okay, it will be okay”, so it was actually type. However equally, I used to be stood on the stage pondering, “I do not actually need to do that with out you”. So, it was an actual memorable second as a result of, not that I would by no means thought I did. It wasn’t like, “Up till this level, I believed I need to –“
Sarah Ellis: “I’ve received my secret marketing strategy”!
Helen Tupper: Yeah! Nevertheless it was simply, it does not actually imply rather a lot, it doesn’t suggest as a lot. We at all times speak about, our most memorable moments are so significantly better once we’re in them collectively. And that was a second that you just simply weren’t a part of and it simply felt incorrect due to it. So, our third query is about mistake moments. I would want your assist with this one, as a result of I am fairly positive I’ve had various mistake moments throughout the yr.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, we all know we have now as a result of we share them.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I do know. And I did seek for them and I used to be like, “Oh, however what’s been…” I really feel like my greatest mistake second is one which I might repair. Earlier than the top of the yr, I feel I can repair this one. So, my mistake second is, Sarah and I, all of the work that we do with corporations, once we’re presenting, we dwell draw all of our periods. We do not current with slides, we dwell draw every little thing, and we have used the identical app for the final ten years to do this. And my app’s received a bit glitchy and I feel I must experiment with another tech, and I really feel like my mistake second is I have not accomplished that.
I’ve not made time to proactively discover a higher choice. So, I really feel like I’m simply, one thing is inferior to it could possibly be, and I am simply sat with it, and it stresses me out each week. It stresses me out as a result of I feel, “Oh, it’ll go incorrect, it’ll go incorrect”. So, my mistake second is, there’s one thing that I could possibly be fixing however I am simply sitting with it not being pretty much as good. That is what I received to. Is {that a} mistake second?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: Okay. Give me one.
Sarah Ellis: However I feel the rationale I do not suppose… What you are describing although is nearly a pre-emptive mistake second, since you’re going, “I do know that app would possibly break, or it feels a bit glitchy”.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, it does break, so I repeatedly have the identical mistake. My different choice —
Sarah Ellis: So, I assume that is type of a immediate possibly. As a result of once we speak about mistake moments, it does are usually, you may actually pinpoint, “I made a mistake. I used to be late [or] I received some info incorrect [or] I used the incorrect information level”. Whereas I feel you are speaking about being annoyed about, you may see how one thing will be higher and you have simply not accomplished something about it.
Helen Tupper: However that mistake — I feel my different choice, one other mistake, and it is a little bit of recency bias as a result of it actually occurred this morning, was yesterday, I used to be doing one thing with somebody on our staff and I wrote an entire doc for them and so they mentioned, “Oh, Helen, I’ve already written that doc and despatched it to you”.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, no!
Helen Tupper: And that’s not the primary time that that has occurred. So, I feel I am noticing I am making a couple of repeat errors. My tech has gone down a couple of occasions and I have not mounted it.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is fascinating.
Helen Tupper: I’ve accomplished the work earlier than, I’ve accomplished what the staff have accomplished with out checking with them first. So, I feel my mistake second is I’ve received some repeated flags of being a bit, I do not know, a bit inefficient. I do not know. That was my reflection after I was fascinated about all of them.
Sarah Ellis: I used to be researching errors a bit of bit for the brand new e-book that we had been writing. And the extra you examine errors, the extra you realise it’s unsurprising to repeat errors, as a result of our brains like patterns and so they like familiarity. And so really, you are extra more likely to repeat the identical mistake than you’re to study from a mistake. We at all times suppose, nicely, you make a mistake, but it surely’s okay since you’ll study from it.
You are extra more likely to not study, which is why we do mistake moments the place throughout the corporate, each time you make a mistake, somebody goes into Groups and truly, to the entire firm, we share, “This is the error second I had however most significantly, here is what I realized”, in an try to interrupt that sample. As a result of what you would possibly say there’s, “Okay, that second mistake the place I do work that is been accomplished earlier than, that comes from taking initiative and possibly performing quick”.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: “And so really, possibly what it’s, is earlier than I do that, I must have nearly like a press-pause second”.
Helen Tupper: I really feel prefer it’s verify first, act first.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, verify first.
Helen Tupper: However I simply act quick!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and it is simply that tiny verify that will maybe forestall that. And I feel when you do not flip a mistake second into an motion imaginable taking, then nothing… Like, I undoubtedly precisely the identical. I am like, “Nicely, I’ve not taken an motion”. If I’ve not accomplished something completely different, how can I anticipate a unique consequence? As a result of I discover that with my mistake moments, it’s typically, even when they are not similar, you may generally spot a theme. What’s yours then?
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, I seemed again over all those from this yr in Groups, as a result of I can return and actually learn all of them. Mine are all small, however ones that felt, I used to be nearly stunned that I made them. So, when you simply mentioned to me, you’re going to make this error, I would be like, “No, I will not make that mistake”. So it is issues like, we turned as much as an occasion this yr and I would not received a little bit of expertise with me that we at all times want, at all times. So, you are like, “Nicely, however Sarah, you recognize that”. And curiously, I did not do not forget that tech.
I’d simply moved home. After which I checked out one other instance and I used to be like, I did not have one thing else with me, I would forgotten one thing, and one thing else was occurring in one other a part of my life. And so, what I’ve began to identify is if you’ve received a great deal of capability, clearly you are much less more likely to make a mistake, you keep in mind what you must keep in mind. However then I am like, however there’s at all times different stuff occurring. You already know, there’s at all times one thing, proper? There’s one thing at your youngsters’ faculty or there’s one thing with your loved ones. And this yr, and I discover it very stunning, I’ve received actually into checklists. I learn the guidelines manifesto!
Helen Tupper: It is so not like you!
Sarah Ellis: I do know it’s, but it surely’s as a result of it really works. And so, for issues which can be repeatable duties, have a guidelines, as a result of basically you make one thing extra foolproof. And numerous it comes from like, you recognize surgical procedure, the place medical doctors could have checklists.
And really, despite the fact that they could have accomplished the identical surgical procedure a great deal of occasions, they nonetheless discovered individuals nonetheless make errors. Even such as you would possibly overlook to, I do not know, wash your fingers or one thing. So, I felt higher as a result of I used to be like, okay, possibly I do not really feel fairly so unhealthy about myself that I made these errors. However really, there’s a simple repair which you could put in place. And we have simply began to make use of them throughout the staff, and I do open them. I am like, “Oh, I am simply going to undergo the guidelines. Have I received this little bit of tech? This? That?”
Helen Tupper: I am not checklisted up. The place do you suppose a guidelines would assist me in my life?
Sarah Ellis: Going to an occasion, working a workshop, doing a podcast recording so you do not overlook your mic, you recognize, all of these kinds of issues.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I imply I really feel like they are not my points.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, but when it isn’t your errors, when you’re like, “Nicely, I haven’t got these errors”, you maybe do not want the checklists, you want different issues.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: I clearly do as a result of I am like, nicely, I can see the patterns and I can then see, I am like once more, “Nicely, I’ve received to do one thing completely different”. And I do not suppose I am naturally, like I mentioned, clearly I overlook them as a result of I can type of see it written down. That is why I like writing down mistake moments, as a result of it makes them information slightly than simply feeling unhealthy.
Helen Tupper: You already know what, I really feel such as you might need misplaced your pockets much less this yr. Is {that a} honest level?
Sarah Ellis: I do not ever lose my pockets.
Helen Tupper: You used to lose your playing cards on a regular basis, do you keep in mind?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: You probably did?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: You’ll at all times be like, “I am unable to discover my playing cards, I am unable to discover my…”
Sarah Ellis: So, proper, so my argument is, proper, there is a distinction between not with the ability to discover one thing —
Helen Tupper: Oh, good lord, no!
Sarah Ellis: So, I do not ever lose them completely.
Helen Tupper: Okay, positive. I really feel like you’ve gotten misplaced your playing cards much less this yr
. Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is perhaps true.
Helen Tupper: Fourth query, what’s a talent that you’ve higher at over the past 12 months?
Sarah Ellis: I discovered this the simplest of the questions.
Helen Tupper: Okay.
Sarah Ellis: I feel it’s receiving suggestions particularly from you, as a result of once we’ve gone by way of the method of writing a e-book, and due to the best way that we have written our newest e-book, I’ve acquired extra suggestions, I feel, than I’ve ever acquired earlier than. And a few of that’s hard-to-hear suggestions, or it is suggestions the place you’re possibly beginning once more among the time.
There’s various sunk prices within the writing course of typically. And generally, it’s a must to take a deep breath, otherwise you really feel sure feelings, and also you type of need to experience out these feelings after which come collectively and be very pragmatic and sensible, and likewise be actually open. So, often, you write one thing and also you suppose, you are like, “I feel that is good [or] I feel this works very well”, and you do not, proper? And so, you may argue about it in an unhelpful approach, or you may constructively attempt to be actually open, attempt to pay attention. You undoubtedly need to put any ego I feel it’s a must to one facet, albeit writing is sort of, in some methods, it’s fairly an ego-driven factor, since you’re writing these phrases. I felt actually proud at occasions that I felt like I at the very least tried, you’ll inform me the way it felt from the opposite facet, I attempted to be actually accepting and open and constructive. And at occasions, that was that was actually tough, however I used to be additionally conscious of, I attempted to take care of that in my very own approach, so then it did not type of get in the best way of us making progress, as a result of I feel if I simply type of… The problem generally with you and I working collectively just isn’t solely are we writing collectively, we’re working a enterprise collectively, we’re excellent associates collectively, and generally I would be like, “I need to discuss to a pal”, and I used to be like, “however you are my pal”, and I used to be like, “I would like new associates”!
Helen Tupper: That is suggestions!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah. However you recognize if you’re like, our worlds generally are so blurred?
Helen Tupper: Sure, sure.
Sarah Ellis: You and I had a couple of occasions this yr the place you are like, proper, every little thing merges and moulds collectively in such a approach. And I feel throughout that course of, I used to be simply very targeted on being like, how can we preserve shifting this e-book ahead in a approach that is actually pragmatic, and simply preserve our readers in thoughts. Nevertheless it wasn’t at all times simple. And I do suppose I’ve received higher at that now, partly by way of apply, proper? If you happen to’d mentioned, “I simply need to get higher at it”, in a vacuum, you most likely will not. However I feel there was a little bit of a forcing operate, and since it wasn’t very easy. It wasn’t like we simply wrote every little thing and went, “Oh, yeah, it is all good”. It was fairly a unique course of to writing Gremlins, the place actually we had been speaking about issues that we already knew labored and there was much less form of newness that we wanted to create there. So, yeah, that was my talent.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, I feel that I do not actually love giving tough suggestions. It is not one thing I actually get pleasure from doing. And I feel I gave what most likely felt like tough suggestions that did not really feel tough. So, I am unable to say, “Oh, I feel you are so significantly better at this than you had been 12 months in the past”. I can say I feel we have had numerous it this yr, and it undoubtedly has felt arduous at occasions. However I’ve by no means discovered it arduous to speak to you. So, you’ve got at all times been receptive and open, and I can see the breath. I can see it, like actually like a, “Okay, let’s go once more”. I can actually see it, however there’s at all times a, “Let’s go once more”. There’s not a, “Proper, I am coming to battle you on this level”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah.
Helen Tupper: Mine is, I do not know when you’ll agree with this, however I feel I’ve received higher at this.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, go on.
Helen Tupper: The talent of claiming no. I feel I am saying no extra. I feel I’ve received my very own little no-cabulary, which we have talked about earlier than, I feel I’ve a approach of doing it. However I undoubtedly suppose I am saying no to extra issues, to sure alternatives that we have had. I am like, “I do not suppose that is the best factor for us proper now”. I really feel like I am getting a bit higher at saying no and never feeling unhealthy about it, which is the second a part of saying no, I feel. You have to say no and truly personal your no. Reflections?
Sarah Ellis: I suppose I do not see it, however then I do not suppose I’d.
Helen Tupper: Okay.
Sarah Ellis: You already know, I am not seeing these noes more often than not, I’d think about, since you’re coping with it straight, so it isn’t that seen for me. I assume different individuals in our staff would possibly see it extra. You’ve got talked to me about one factor that you will say no to subsequent yr.
Helen Tupper: Already mentioned no.
Sarah Ellis: Which stunned me and I used to be like, “Oh, Helen’s going to say no to that!”
Helen Tupper: But in addition, we had fairly a giant alternative that we mentioned no to just lately.
Sarah Ellis: Sure.
Helen Tupper: And I feel I used to be form of holding the no on that one a bit of bit.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I feel most likely for me as nicely, it is arduous to be actually balanced round that, as a result of generally, I suppose, the conversations we have now are the place you’ve got not mentioned no and then you definately’re actually feeling it. So, I feel I really feel these moments the place you’ve got received actually crunchy occasions, and I am like, “Wow”, it is since you’ve mentioned sure to a lot. I feel I see the spikiness that creates for you and you are like, “I am going from one factor to the subsequent, to the subsequent, and I’ve received a night factor, and I’ve received one other night factor”. I feel, simply due to our relationship, that’s extra seen to me than the noes, which does not imply I do not imagine you. I simply do not suppose I see it.
Helen Tupper: You must see the noes in my inbox. There’s many, many like, “Not proper now”, sort factor.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is good.
Helen Tupper: The final one is, what can we admire about one another? Over the yr, what have you ever appreciated? What have you ever appreciated about me this yr?
Sarah Ellis: I at all times really feel such as you need me to be joyful.
Helen Tupper: I do!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I do know!
Helen Tupper: I do!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. And so, I feel you care about what does it take and what does it appear to be for Sarah to benefit from the work that she does, do the work that she’s finest at, after which you’ll at all times suppose, how can I make that occur? How can I be useful? How can I provide the area to do this? Even when it isn’t the identical for you, which really typically is not the identical for each of us, we undoubtedly have some issues in frequent, however I at all times really feel that help from you to be like, nicely, if I then mentioned one thing completely different to what you already find out about me, I simply at all times know that your first response is unquestionably like, “Proper, okay, nicely what do we have to do, and the way can we take into consideration this otherwise?” If I mentioned to you, “I need to work –” this isn’t true, “I need to work sooner or later per week”, I do not suppose you would be like, “Oh, no”, you would be like, “Proper, okay, nicely let’s speak about that”.
Helen Tupper: I feel I would do the breath that you just do with suggestions. I would be like, “Okay, sooner or later per week, let’s discover a approach”.
Sarah Ellis: However you’ll discover a approach.
Helen Tupper: I’d discover a approach.
Sarah Ellis: That is a really Helen phrase, you are like, “Let’s discover a approach”. I do suppose it is fairly uncommon to have another person who you are working with who’s so invested in your model of success. And that feels very nice, as a result of that appears like we will have very completely different conversations. And also you’re really very non-judgmental. As a result of I do know generally issues that will matter to me would not matter to you, and likewise vice versa. I really feel such as you’re by no means going, “I do not get why that is necessary, Sarah, why that will matter”. I simply ask, “How can I assist or how can I help?” and I feel that’s uniquely you. And it isn’t simply within the final yr, however I do at all times really feel it. There you go.
Helen Tupper: That is very good, thanks.
Sarah Ellis: You appear to be you would possibly need to hug me.
Helen Tupper: I really feel heat and fuzzy. Sarah Ellis: I am like, “Do not hug me!”
Helen Tupper: I am not going to hug her, she’s received a chilly. I am not going close to her. Mine, what I admire about you is, I’ve put ‘challenger’.
Sarah Ellis: Fairly completely different to what I’ve simply mentioned!
Helen Tupper: No, however I really feel like you’re at all times difficult us to be higher, just like the e-book, like how might it’s higher? You already know one thing will be higher, you will not let it go, you would be like, you’ll problem us to enhance the standard of our studying, the place I will be like, “Okay, I feel it is adequate”. You are like, “No”, you’ll at all times problem us, or how can we be extra related? Or how can we enhance what we’re doing? Or how can we do that higher for the staff? And even once we’re busy, like this yr, we have had a lot on, we have had the enterprise and we have had the e-book, there’s been a lot on, and you do not let that go. You at all times preserve that bar of like, “Nicely, how might we be higher? How might we make that sentence higher?”
Like, it goes from technique to sentences! The problem, you apply it to a lot of what you do, and I feel it is simply very completely different to me. And I am very grateful for it, as a result of I feel we’re all higher, what we produce is healthier, the staff is healthier. I’m higher as a result of you’ve gotten this type of relentless, “However we might do this higher, we will make that completely different. We should not simply settle for it as a result of that is what we have accomplished”. And I feel I actually admire it as a result of it isn’t what I carry. And so, I actually worth that you’ve got at all times received that.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I feel it is simply, you recognize these items, generally most likely the stuff you admire essentially the most are sometimes, you recognize, like a part of your DNA. Like, I do not really feel like I select that. I simply really feel like that’s the approach that my mind works, generally for higher, generally for worse. Identical to I feel your mind works in a approach the place you are like, you would not query me, you’ll discover a approach with me. I feel that is simply your — you recognize, generally our defaults are additionally what makes us actually good. And it’s good for individuals to say what they admire about you. It is a good staff train.
Helen Tupper: Workforce train. Workforce train, it is good. So, let’s transfer into three reflective questions, possibly not so fast, possibly a bit extra thought’s required.
Sarah Ellis: We weren’t that fast, had been we?
Helen Tupper: We weren’t that fast!
Sarah Ellis: We had been luxuriating within the end-of-year podcast, aren’t we? Helen Tupper: I feel, however is not that good?
Sarah Ellis: It’s good.
Helen Tupper: Is not it good to luxuriate on the yr, although? You already know if you undergo stuff so quick on a regular basis, really it is fairly good to only spend like 15-20 minutes luxuriating in what you spent a yr of your life doing. Okay so let’s luxuriate some extra. When do you suppose you’ve gotten had essentially the most constructive influence this yr? I’ve gone with two, which I’ve received an extended listing!
Sarah Ellis: Nearly the query ought to be like, “Have not I?”
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I’ve received an extended listing! So, I’ve received two. Possibly you may resolve for me. Possibly that is a part of it, like, you must resolve after I’ve had essentially the most constructive influence.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay.
Helen Tupper: So, I’ve put two down. I feel there are particular consumer programmes that I’ve run, and I am undecided if I can title them, however there are a few massive consumer programmes that I’ve run that I really feel like I’ve made a extremely massive distinction to the corporate and the individuals within the corporations, nearly like at a cultural degree, and I really feel actually happy with that. That is had a big effect for these people, and truly for us when it comes to {our relationships} with these purchasers. I am happy with that. After which I feel we have had a few campaigns, like issues just like the Dash in summer time. I really feel like one of many variations that I — I am fairly good at a marketing campaign. You are actually good at a long-term dedication, like a e-book. I am fairly good at a short-term venture. And I really feel like I’ve a constructive influence on — we had one million minutes of studying that individuals did in our dash this yr due to what we created. And I’m going, “Nicely, that is one million minutes of studying that would not have occurred if we hadn’t created the dash”. So, these are mine.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, I do not suppose I can select. I really feel like they had been each good.
Helen Tupper: “A type of was garbage, Helen, you may’t bag that one!”
Sarah Ellis: No, I might undoubtedly not select. And really, mine was completely different.
Mine was our Squiggle and Keep programme, which the constructive influence is, a small slice belongs to me, however a lot of the constructive impacts of that programme belongs to you and the companions that we labored with, as a result of actually they had been those doing the experiments. So, the thought with that venture is that individuals signed as much as new methods to help individuals to form of transfer round their organisations. And I feel the constructive impacts that I particularly had, that is nearly like a great apply for an interview query, is not it, like, “How did you contribute to that massive venture?” was nearly initially with the concepts. So, we created an concepts financial institution for the businesses. I feel it had 16 completely different concepts in, and it was like, “Oh, you can attempt profession safaris, you can attempt transfer mentoring”. The rationale I feel we have now a constructive influence in that second is we’re good at each arising with concepts, and that is a power that I’ve received, but in addition describing them in a approach that is memorable, form of labelling the training, giving them a reputation, giving them a little bit of an id. And I feel we had been type of a catalyst for these organisations to then say, nicely, you modify them otherwise you adapt them or iterate, be sure they work in your context”. However I really feel like if we weren’t that catalyst, these organisations and all their staff who then benefited from these experiments, that would not have occurred. A bit like your, “The million minutes would not have occurred if we hadn’t accomplished that”, I form of go, a great deal of individuals would not have had the chance to squiggle and keep if we form of hadn’t created that programme.
And like I say, I really feel like we had been the catalyst, after which a great deal of the arduous work was accomplished by the organisations we labored with, like Specsavers and Welsh Water and Danske Financial institution. And I keep in mind pondering like, “That is superb, what they’re all going away and doing”. Then, I am actually proud that we have then printed all the outcomes of that and all the info overtly in order that anybody can entry it, and that feels very in step with why we had been an Wonderful If and what we try to do round profession improvement, like making it obtainable to all people. And so, I feel I am taking a small slice of credit score for one thing that truly I really feel simply actually happy with everybody who was concerned in that.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, if that was an interview I would provide the job.
Sarah Ellis: Thanks.
Helen Tupper: You’ve got received the job to Squiggly Profession co-founder, I am going to let you’ve gotten that!
Sarah Ellis: Thanks!
Helen Tupper: I am laughing at this one, as a result of you do not know my reply to this one.
Sarah Ellis: Go on.
Helen Tupper: Who have you ever been studying from this yr? Who’s going first?
Sarah Ellis: Go on then, you go, since you’ve received me intrigued now.
Helen Tupper: I do know. I have not instructed you this. You are going to be like, “What is that this?” Okay, so I’ve been a part of — what? What?
Sarah Ellis: It should be some type of bizarre YouTube factor.
Helen Tupper: No, it isn’t.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay.
Helen Tupper: It is not. You are going to suppose that is actually bizarre. Flip Flippen, who I’ve not instructed you about, okay. So, I’m a part of a community referred to as EY Successful Ladies, and I’m going to varied occasions with this group and meet a lot of completely different individuals. And I just lately went away with them to a convention, referred to as the Strategic Development Discussion board, the place you bought to choose some individuals to fulfill. And one of many people who I needed to fulfill was Flip Flippen.
Sarah Ellis: I imply, what a reputation.
Helen Tupper: I do know, precisely. However he additionally runs a studying organisation over within the US, significantly targeted on training. And so, oh my God, I have not instructed you this. So, I went to fulfill Flip Flippen. I do not understand how outdated Flip is. I feel Flip is perhaps about 80.
Sarah Ellis: Proper, okay.
Helen Tupper: 70, 80.
Sarah Ellis: Plenty of knowledge then.
Helen Tupper: Plenty of knowledge. And I sat down with Flip and his CEO. And Flip is a psychotherapist by coaching, and he type of brings. You sit — I sat at a desk, it was a spherical desk, and also you sit there and he like appears into your soul. I began crying!
Sarah Ellis: How have you ever not instructed me this?
Helen Tupper: As a result of I’ve not caught up with you concerning the Strategic Development Discussion board.
Sarah Ellis: Okay, yeah positive.
Helen Tupper: So, principally it was a extremely fascinating dialog.
Sarah Ellis: I imply that is just like the sound bathtub factor yet again, you popping out of one thing crying, and me going, “What is occurring?”
Helen Tupper: Me hugging the therapist! That was essentially the most superb expertise I’ve ever had in my life! When he hit the bong.
Sarah Ellis: It did nothing for me, for positive.
Helen Tupper: No, he did not have a bong. However we did sit at a desk and he was asking some questions. I used to be asking Flip about like how’s he scaled his enterprise and the way does he use expertise, and all this type of stuff. After which, he was simply asking me these actually deep questions on, like, what motivates you to do what you do?
Sarah Ellis: And also you began crying?
Helen Tupper: Nicely, as a result of he stored going additional and additional. It was like he was trying into my soul. He was like, “However why, Helen? What’s the which means for you in your work? What drives you to make a distinction to individuals’s improvement? I used to be like, “I do not know, I simply need to assist individuals, Flip”!
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God!
Helen Tupper: Anyway, I realized quite a bit from him as a result of he was simply very honest and really heat, and I feel generally you suppose somebody has to let you know one thing to study from them, however really I feel I simply realized that generally, simply asking questions is sufficient. You already know, like, if you’re being mentored, I feel you are like, “Oh, the worth on this dialog is the knowledge I will get from Sarah”. I am undecided Flip imparted any knowledge on me, however what he did do was ask me some questions that made me suppose a bit extra deeply about what I am doing and why I do it, the place my motivation comes from, and related, and since he was actually taking a look at me. We had been on this huge convention, so many individuals, busy, noisy, however he simply checked out me and requested me the questions and waited for my reply. And I feel it is such a, I do not know, I feel I used to be a bit overwhelmed; I used to be a bit drained! I feel there have been different causes I cried, and it wasn’t like an outpouring, it was only a… After which he went again, he mentioned to me, “There was a little bit of emotion there, Helen, can we return to that?” and I used to be like, “Can we not? Can we transfer?”
Sarah Ellis: I would like to have been a fly on the wall for that half! However possibly there’s one thing there about asking and a spotlight. So, he was each asking you actually good questions, after which actually paying consideration. As a result of if he observed a little bit of emotion, but in addition being very current.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, simply when your eyes get a bit of bit glassy. I used to be like, “I used to be attempting to overlook that”! So, yeah, anyway that was a dialog.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, there you go, there’s new information for me.
Helen Tupper: New information, information you did not know. Who have you ever realized from this yr?
Sarah Ellis: I really considered this barely otherwise, as a result of I feel in a lot of methods, I’ve spent various time on my own this yr, by necessity. It sounds actually bleak, does not it? However if you end up writing a e-book and you do not do it fairly often, so that is a lot of phrases, books are actual staff efforts, however there’s a part of the e-book writing course of that may be a very solo endeavour. It may be fairly lonely at occasions, however I did really feel like one of many issues that I actually get pleasure from about writing a e-book is the method of studying from a lot of individuals that truly you have not met.
So, I feel my ratio of non-fiction e-book studying after I’m writing a e-book goes up tenfold. If I have a look at what number of books I’ve now received versus what number of books I had initially of writing my newest e-book, I’ve most likely received 50 new books. And generally that is as a result of I needed to learn a chapter, generally it could possibly be as small as a paragraph, generally it was the entire e-book. So, I really feel like I’ve hung out with a lot of new individuals. And at the very least a few of these individuals, I feel I would prefer to get in contact with and see in the event that they’d like to return on the podcast, for instance, for professional interviews. So I used to be like, nicely, I’ve undoubtedly realized from these individuals, whether or not that is about pausing or perfectionism or being a newbie or whether or not that is giving. And generally, these books as nicely form of take you outdoors of your world. They don’t seem to be about careers or they are not about studying, however they’ve written one thing related or that in some way is fascinating to what we’re writing about. So, I used to be like, they’re most likely the individuals I’ve realized essentially the most from.
However I’ve additionally realized, I do not know whether or not I’ve realized from, however I’ve actually wanted two of my associates this yr, Rachel and Rob, who I’ll give a shoutout to. I really feel like they’ve been by my facet by way of that writing course of in a approach which you could’t do, since you’re within the writing course of and you must critique it and we have to form of edit it collectively. I’d simply go away them voice notes form of saying hiya and type of describing the place I used to be, and so they at all times knew what chapter I used to be engaged on. And I would be in the identical place doing very comparable walks daily, and I would be like, “Oh, I am on the Being a Newbie chapter and I’ve received to the top of that [or] I’ve give you a good suggestion right here [or] I’ve received a bit caught”. And Rachel’s received her little child, Janie, and so I am very grateful she’s on maternity go away!
Helen Tupper: As a result of you may go away her these voice notes and he or she’ll pay attention!
Sarah Ellis: I mentioned to her, I will want some type of transition plan. When she goes again to work, I will want some type of like, how do I get weaned off her giving me all this? So you recognize, I feel, generally your excellent associates, and so they’re two of my finest associates, they know what you want if you want it, and so they’ve actually proven up for me and been extremely supportive. And I type of cannot think about having accomplished it with out the 2 of them. And Rob’s additionally, he is the one individual really, aside from our editor, who’s learn the entire e-book. He gave us some actually useful insights as we had been going. And you recognize if you simply want simply these — I do not want a great deal of individuals, however I do want a few individuals who I really feel are on my facet, are with me, and they’re prepared you to succeed. And they might most likely hear generally if I received a bit caught, if I used to be doubting myself and so they’d attempt to like, I do not know, at the very least encourage me or remind me, “You’ve got accomplished it earlier than, you are able to do it once more”. And so, yeah, I suppose it did make me replicate a bit of bit on the continued significance of getting the best individuals, since you by no means fairly know if you’ll want them. If you happen to had mentioned to me that was going to be as necessary because it has been this yr, I do not suppose I’d have guessed that, however I do not suppose I’d have gotten by way of the yr with that grit with out them.
Helen Tupper: Very good. Okay, final query. Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: Are you prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: What do you need to be true in 12 months’ time that’s not true in the present day?
Sarah Ellis: I would love us to have spent extra time creating collectively in a room by this time subsequent yr.
Helen Tupper: Oh, I would love that too. I did not write it, however I would love that too.
Sarah Ellis: Disgrace, disgrace. I imply, do not feel unhealthy about it, however you recognize!
Helen Tupper: I would like that too; I’ve actually missed that this yr. I form of suppose that the inspiration of every little thing was time like that collectively, and we simply have not had that point.
Sarah Ellis: I feel all of our greatest stuff, after I take into consideration every little thing we have accomplished that is actually good, that makes a distinction to Squiggly, will increase our influence, and even when we have now accomplished the e-book stuff collectively this yr, all of our massive breakthroughs on the e-book had been collectively, and sometimes in a room collectively, me pacing in circles, you sitting down watching me tempo.
Helen Tupper: Strolling down the seaside.
Sarah Ellis: Strolling down a seaside collectively. I imply we ditched a few of that stuff, however you have to get to that breakthrough to get to the subsequent breakthrough. And even when I feel again, whether or not it is TED Talks or podcasts, or these sorts of issues, it is at all times in these moments the place our brains are type of fizzing and merging and completely different in all kinds of fine methods, and that is why I am like, we’re higher as a result of we’re a staff. And yeah, for many causes this yr, I feel we have now to take accountability for that. We did not prioritise it and we did among the issues that I feel we’re each actually happy with. However I would not need to be sitting right here this this time subsequent yr and never having spent that point collectively.
Helen Tupper: Agreed.
Sarah Ellis: I am not forcing you into it now.
Helen Tupper: No, I do know.
Sarah Ellis: “I do not need to spend extra time collectively!”
Helen Tupper: No, I actually need to, no. Mine is completely different. So, by this time subsequent yr, I would love there to be 10,000 lobsters able to study. I would like that as a result of our new e-book, Study Like a Lobster, is popping out in simply over a yr. So, by this time subsequent yr, I would like there to be like a degree of pleasure. I would like there to be 10,000 people who find themselves like, “I’m in, I’m able to study like a lobster, I am able to advocate for this new approach of approaching”. I would like there to be pleasure, clearly, as a result of I do.
Sarah Ellis: And we will not discuss concerning the e-book masses, however I really feel like if we will say the title, we must always clarify that lobsters by no means cease rising. And there is heaps to like concerning the lobster. They by no means cease rising, they gas their very own progress, they’re very self-sufficient, they type of create their very own progress, after which they type of develop by way of these fairly arduous moments. And that provides you a little bit of a touch. It’s kind of of a teaser for what’s to return. It would make sense, the truth that we’re speaking about lobsters and studying, we promise.
Helen Tupper: With 10,000 individuals, we’ll be purchased into it by this time subsequent yr, and so they’ll be making it make sense!
Sarah Ellis: Whether or not they prefer it or not, it is the best way they will describe it!
Helen Tupper: Precisely! Lobsters are go, lobsters are rising and lobsters are studying, that is the plan.
Sarah Ellis: So, if you want to do a yr in evaluate, I feel you are able to do it by your self, I feel you are able to do it with a pal, you are able to do it in a staff, you can do it along with your supervisor. Take a look on the PodSheet, as a result of we’ll put the questions that we have talked by way of in the present day on there, so you may refer again to these. We’ve got additionally received a couple of different sources. We have got articles, we have frameworks which you could have a look at. So, please benefit from these. They’re all free and prepared and ready for you.
Helen Tupper: Thanks a lot for listening to us and to our journey over the past 12 months. It has been a superb yr of studying with the Squiggly Profession neighborhood. So, thanks for being a part of that. And we’ll be again with you subsequent yr.
Sarah Ellis: So, here is to some squiggling in 2025.